Poll: QT method - Proactive, Passive, I don't quarantine?

[huthain]

So in the process of starting to QT fish soon, ive learned a ton here especially from Jay's QT protocol that is the main reason im starting to QT.

However I also am unsure if I want to expose every fish to copper and prazi by taking a proactive approach, anything and everything goes through the treatment which also seems slightly inhumane towards the fish however i understand its for the greater good. Or should I just observe them passively for a couple of months and unless I see signs of disease start treatment.

Would love to hear how everyone does it, why they do it that way and how has it worked out for them!

 

[huthain]

If this isnt the right space for it let me know!

 

[exnisstech]

All or none, no half measures. JMO

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I voted proactive, but I let others, such as Dr Reef do it for me as I do not have have the time, equipment, or expertise to do it.

 

[huthain]

All or none, no half measures. JMO

So youre classifying observation being half measures?

 

[huthain]

I voted proactive, but I let others, such as Dr Reef do it for me as I do not have have the time, equipment, or expertise to do it.

Randy not having expertise! Not something I thought I would hear! Not its making me nervous about starting it haha

 

[Michael Hughes]

I've read a lot on various perspectives, and I understand where you're coming from, as I had the same thoughts. Over the course of my research, I have seen countless times (to be less hyperbolic, I've read dozens and dozens of accounts, with multiple more every week) where people had a tank crash due to parasites (velvet in particular) or lost fish due to ich, velvet, brook, etc. It wasn't just stuff I've read online; back when I kept only freshwater tanks, I was given a used tank from a guy who had spent over $10,000 on his reef only to lose it all in a velvet-related tank crash.

I've decided for me, it would be a non-negotiable if I would spend money on this hobby, I would quarantine everything. What I do is outlined below, if it is helpful. Keep in mind I'm still new to reefing (<1 year) so how this works out in the long term is yet to be seen.

Corals, inverts, live rock, etc. go in a fishless frag tank for 77 days.

For fish I'm using Jay Hemdal's QT method of 30 days in copper (2.25 ppm) with three rounds of prazi powder. Public aquariums use copper and have fish live 15+ years, anecdotally. So this suggests to me that fish can live a long time even after prophylactic copper.

I was really intrigued by the Serious Reefs QT method (15-days in elevated copper [2.65 ppm]) with 100% water changes every 3 days, and prazi baths periodically. Ultimately I decided on the method with the longer track record. Part of the decision was I'd rather not disturb the fish by catching them every 3 days (which would effectively simulate a predatory attack every 3 days, thus causing acute stress 5+ times during QT).

I find the 30 day QT, usually one fish at a time, also forces me to stagger my DT introductions in a disciplined manner, which helps the tank adjust to increasingly higher bioload over time.

Ultimately, quarantining is your decision, and is about your own risk tolerance. Hope these thoughts are helpful!

 

[exnisstech]

So youre classifying observation being half measures?

Observation only is what I do but around here the term QT usually means medicated treatment so I quit saying I QT and instead I say I do observation only. I voted passive observation.
I've been through velvet and know the risks but i felt like a fish murderer when I was medicating so i stopped. I'm sure it was something I did wrong but i couldn't figure out what it was.
I only buy fish I can see in person and i won't buy from tanks running low salinty and or low level copper. I typically try to buy fish only out of tanks that also house coral or inverts. I'll never tell anyone not to QT in copper if that is what they feel is best for them. It's a personal decision and people have to do what they feel is right for them. I don't really see it was half measures or full measures but just a personal decision. Some people QT inverts, coral and even live rock and that's fine if that's what they choose to do.

PS I'm a bit of a believer in the healthy fish can have natural immunity and such gang but that's been discussed enough already and the discussions are usually not productive but they can be very entertaining lol.

 

[vlangel]

I checked proactive but in reality I would now describe myself somewhere between proactive and observation. I have a 20g QT cycled and ready to go. When I am going to add fish to my DT I do it in multiples so as to spread out bullying. So I buy 2 or 3 fish to go in QT at once. I observe those fish for 3-4 weeks. Those fish become comfortable with each other. If I see disease then I treat but if I do not see disease I do not treat. My last batch of fish came from a lfs that also QTs before they sell the fish. I should add that my DT has an oversized UV sterilizer for another layer of protection. This method can greatly reduce the risk of a disease outbreak but it is not sure proof. It however is much safer than what I did for 25+ years which was try to buy healthy looking fish, put them in an acclimation box in the DT for a week and then release them. Even doing that I only experience 2 big disease events in 25 yrs. However in the 2nd of those 2 events (this past January) I lost 7 out of 17 fish, some who had been long time pets. That motivated me to make a change. I just added my first 3 new residents since then and they are doing very well. No signs of scratching, flashing and all 3 are eating well. I feel I have greatly improved the chances of preventing a catastrophic disease event in my DT tank.

 

[huthain]

I've read a lot on various perspectives, and I understand where you're coming from, as I had the same thoughts. Over the course of my research, I have seen countless times (to be less hyperbolic, I've read dozens and dozens of accounts, with multiple more every week) where people had a tank crash due to parasites (velvet in particular) or lost fish due to ich, velvet, brook, etc. It wasn't just stuff I've read online; back when I kept only freshwater tanks, I was given a used tank from a guy who had spent over $10,000 on his reef only to lose it all in a velvet-related tank crash.

I've decided for me, it would be a non-negotiable if I would spend money on this hobby, I would quarantine everything. What I do is outlined below, if it is helpful. Keep in mind I'm still new to reefing (<1 year) so how this works out in the long term is yet to be seen.

Corals, inverts, live rock, etc. go in a fishless frag tank for 77 days.

For fish I'm using Jay Hemdal's QT method of 30 days in copper (2.25 ppm) with three rounds of prazi powder. Public aquariums use copper and have fish live 15+ years, anecdotally. So this suggests to me that fish can live a long time even after prophylactic copper.

I was really intrigued by the Serious Reefs QT method (15-days in elevated copper [2.65 ppm]) with 100% water changes every 3 days, and prazi baths periodically. Ultimately I decided on the method with the longer track record. Part of the decision was I'd rather not disturb the fish by catching them every 3 days (which would effectively simulate a predatory attack every 3 days, thus causing acute stress 5+ times during QT).

I find the 30 day QT, usually one fish at a time, also forces me to stagger my DT introductions in a disciplined manner, which helps the tank adjust to increasingly higher bioload over time.

Ultimately, quarantining is your decision, and is about your own risk tolerance. Hope these thoughts are helpful!

Have you had any casualties during QT? Im going for the 70+ days with the initial.batch because im planning on running the tank fallow. However I am considering the 30days approach after that and like you said it will keep me disciplined with how many fish I add at any point of time

 

[huthain]

I checked proactive but in reality I would now describe myself somewhere between proactive and observation. I have a 20g QT cycled and ready to go. When I am going to add fish to my DT I do it in multiples so as to spread out bullying. So I buy 2 or 3 fish to go in QT at once. I observe those fish for 3-4 weeks. Those fish become comfortable with each other. If I see disease then I treat but if I do not see disease I do not treat. My last batch of fish came from a lfs that also QTs before they sell the fish. I should add that my DT has an oversized UV sterilizer for another layer of protection. This method can greatly reduce the risk of a disease outbreak but it is not sure proof. It however is much safer than what I did for 25+ years which was try to buy healthy looking fish, put them in an acclimation box in the DT for a week and then release them. Even doing that I only experience 2 big disease events in 25 yrs. However in the 2nd of those 2 events (this past January) I lost 7 out of 17 fish, some who had been long time pets. That motivated me to make a change. I just added my first 3 new residents since then and they are doing very well. No signs of scratching, flashing and all 3 are eating well. I feel I have greatly improved the chances of preventing a catastrophic disease event in my DT tank.

On UVs ive purchased a deltec 19 which is rated at 20watts but they claim it operates closer to 40 watts with how its built, would it be sufficient for a 750liters? I think thats roughly 200 gallons. And would you know what kind of flow rate i need on it? I considered a bigger UV but it physically wouldnt fit in the sump and if anything is fixed out of the sump my wife would put me out of the house!

 

[TokenReefer]

I checked proactive but in reality I would now describe myself somewhere between proactive and observation. I have a 20g QT cycled and ready to go. When I am going to add fish to my DT I do it in multiples so as to spread out bullying. So I buy 2 or 3 fish to go in QT at once. I observe those fish for 3-4 weeks. Those fish become comfortable with each other. If I see disease then I treat but if I do not see disease I do not treat. My last batch of fish came from a lfs that also QTs before they sell the fish. I should add that my DT has an oversized UV sterilizer for another layer of protection. This method can greatly reduce the risk of a disease outbreak but it is not sure proof. It however is much safer than what I did for 25+ years which was try to buy healthy looking fish, put them in an acclimation box in the DT for a week and then release them. Even doing that I only experience 2 big disease events in 25 yrs. However in the 2nd of those 2 events (this past January) I lost 7 out of 17 fish, some who had been long time pets. That motivated me to make a change. I just added my first 3 new residents since then and they are doing very well. No signs of scratching, flashing and all 3 are eating well. I feel I have greatly improved the chances of preventing a catastrophic disease event in my DT tank.

Did you have the UV the whole time or was it recently added?

 

[Michael Hughes]

Have you had any casualties during QT? Im going for the 70+ days with the initial.batch because im planning on running the tank fallow. However I am considering the 30days approach after that and like you said it will keep me disciplined with how many fish I add at any point of time

I did run my tank fallow for the first 77 days and timed my first QT batch to be finished just after that. My first batch was two captive-bred ocellaris clowns. They're very forgiving of mistakes so I figured they'd be good for running QT the first time. I'm glad I did, because I learned a lot about the process the first time, and they managed to make it through my mistakes (salinity fluctuations due to no ATO, figuring out copper testing, etc.).

I'm ready for my next QT batch now, just waiting on my LFS to get in the fish I ordered.

Like I said, I'm still early on as a reefer, but it was nice to get the first QT "win" under my belt.

 

[huthain]

I did run my tank fallow for the first 77 days and timed my first QT batch to be finished just after that. My first batch was two captive-bred ocellaris clowns. They're very forgiving of mistakes so I figured they'd be good for running QT the first time. I'm glad I did, because I learned a lot about the process the first time, and they managed to make it through my mistakes (salinity fluctuations due to no ATO, figuring out copper testing, etc.).

I'm ready for my next QT batch now, just waiting on my LFS to get in the fish I ordered.

Like I said, I'm still early on as a reefer, but it was nice to get the first QT "win" under my belt.

Would you say the copper power dosage ln the bottle was fairly accurate? How long after you dose copper did you test the waters?

 

[slingfox]

On UVs ive purchased a deltec 19 which is rated at 20watts but they claim it operates closer to 40 watts with how its built, would it be sufficient for a 750liters? I think thats roughly 200 gallons. And would you know what kind of flow rate i need on it? I considered a bigger UV but it physically wouldnt fit in the sump and if anything is fixed out of the sump my wife would put me out of the house!

For ich management 20 watts is way too small. For a 200g system I believe the recommendation is 57-80 watt minimum for parasite management or 80-120 watts preferred if you have a large bioload or want to ensure max effectiveness.

I have a 25 watt on my 125g system and that is also theoretically too small but that is what I can fit in my setup so that is what I use. For the main topic: I am in the indicated quarantine camp.

 

[huthain]

For ich management 20 watts is way too small. For a 200g system I believe the recommendation is 57-80 watt minimum for parasite management or 80-120 watts preferred if you have a large bioload or want to ensure max effectiveness.

I have a 25 watt on my 125g system and that is also theoretically too small but that is what I can fit in my setup so that is what I use. For the main topic: I am in the indicated quarantine camp.

Are you familiar with tmc brand? Are they any good if you are there is one called titan 850. Not sure if that's suitable

 

[slingfox]

Are you familiar with tmc brand? Are they any good if you are there is one called titan 850. Not sure if that's suitable

Yes I am very familiar with the TMC Vecton 850: That is what I have on my tank! It is a 25 watt UV sterilizer. Best form factor for that wattage category. It has run without issue for 2.5 years. Bulb replacement is straightforward. Highly recommended unit but it is likely too small for your tank.

 

[huthain]

Yes I am very familiar with the TMC Vecton 850: That is what I have on my tank! It is a 25 watt UV sterilizer. Best form factor for that wattage category. It has run without issue for 2.5 years. Bulb replacement is straightforward. Highly recommended unit but it is likely too small for your tank.

Would i be able to hook up 2 UVs to my tank? Would that work? If so do they have to be pumped by a Y split or after each other?

 

[Michael Hughes]

Would you say the copper power dosage ln the bottle was fairly accurate? How long after you dose copper did you test the waters?

The dosage on the bottle is for a 2.5 ppm concentration. My target was 2.25 ppm, so I had to do a little math to figure out my dosage. Making things more complicated is my QT tank is a 20 gallon long, but I measured the inside of the glass and did the calculations myself, to find the tank only holds about 15 gallons.

I waited probably half an hour or so to ensure the copper power was distributed throughout the water. Tested with a Hanna checker.

It was a bit more complicated getting the water change refill water to be dosed correctly because my graduated cylinder doesn't have any marks below 10 mL, and my dosage was somewhere around 6-7 mL per 4 gallons. I bought one of those 5 gallon buckets from Home Depot that's marked with volume on the side.

One thing that will help with the next round is that I wrote everything down (how much water, how many mL I dosed, and my resulting Hanna checker readings) so I have a much better starting point this time around.

 

[overhead]

My LFS runs copper power at 2+ (can't recall exactly what they said) and drops Prazi once a week. Obviously, I have no way to verify this, I take their word for it. I do not consider it inhumane or cruel to continue that same treatment once I get the fish home, I am in no hurry. They recommended quarantine because they are constantly adding new fish to their tanks, but would not say exactly how to do it other than copper power...I am a new customer and I have a feeling they have had issues with people blaming them if things don't go well. I did tell them what I was doing, which is what is recommended here, and they said it would be fine. I am new to all of this, might change my mind in the future.