Does Lineage Really Matter?

[_sludgefactory]

In my opinion i think it matters just as much as with dogs. That's why there is the American kennel club to show lineage. There are people who want that proof as much as there are people who want a pure breed dog. But some people don't care, like me, if it looks good I'll take it. However if i want something that you can only find as a named coral I'll take it if i want it bad enough.



Tank thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81000

LG P999 EaglesBlood 2.8, Trinity ELPmax

 

[apicturepaints]

Yes, and no. Some corals are just easy to identify and don't need linage. Like Rastas are really distinguishable, but something like the RDPE, which has several look-a-likes - I would ask for lineage.

I think lineage really matters when you're getting into those higher price range games. If I'm going to pay a pretty penny for something, I want the reassurance that it is what I think it is, especially when you're dealing with booger sized frags of chalices, and a lot of chalices are a hefty amount.


Lineage is just reassurance.

 

[63vette427]

Well to answer that question. I actually do have some documents on corals i bought directly from WWC. They always include an invoice that would show you bought it directly from them. I also actually have one from Joe knows corals as well. It's actually not a bad idea for some of the vendors that release corals. That would give some paper trail on some of them. Not fool proof but a start.

To compare corals to cars (as i'm a corvette and car lover). If i buy a honda with a BMW symbol on it, does that make it a BMW? Even though it says it is, doesn't really mean it's real. I know that's a little out there but...

I know I posted on this one already, but I just had a question for clarification...

Does anyone really have registered, on paper, lineage of the corals they have?

Do any corals sell with a Certificate of Authenticity that guarantees the lineage of the corals you just purchased?

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's still a duck... If it's Donald's offspring or not only Donald can tell you for sure

 

[aherre07]

I truly believe that for the craze of naming's sake we do need lineage in an effort to make sense of the amounts we are spending on corals. However, in the case of comparing to registering dogs you register the litter with the amount of puppies born and all. My question would be when a vendor releases a named LE piece would he include so many copies of docs to go with it so that the new owner can share when he/she frags his colony??

 

[Reef@holic]

I think lineage matters a lot, especially in higher end corals like expensive chalices. There are a lot of fakes and scammers out there! With lineage you know you are getting the true exact piece you are looking for, and you know it's going to grow and show the colors you are wanting which most likely why WE bought it in the first place. Another point to be made is most lineaged corals have been in captivity and are use to aquarium lighting and are much hardier, than wild caught coral. I'm all about getting a nice coral I it's priced right but if I bought a $900 chalice without lineage and found out it was not the original piece I was looking for I would be pretty heated.

 

[k2parkstar]

I truly believe that for the craze of naming's sake we do need lineage in an effort to make sense of the amounts we are spending on corals. However, in the case of comparing to registering dogs you register the litter with the amount of puppies born and all. My question would be when a vendor releases a named LE piece would he include so many copies of docs to go with it so that the new owner can share when he/she frags his colony??

If you were to get a document you simply would need to make a copy of it and pass it on.

 

[larryl]

It depends really. On highend lineage all the way to many fakes out there. If I'm shelling I out the bucks I want the real deal.

 

[swannyson7]

I think lineage is unimportant, but the duration in captivity is certainly important for determining hardiness and whether or not a coral will retain its coloration. The problem with lineage is that they get dispersed so widely with no documentation. All it takes is one unscrupulous person anywhere in the custody chain to give false lineage and discount any value it may have. As long as a coral has been in captivity for a few months and has maintained coloration and shown growth, I could care less whether it came from the original colony or not.

 

[spspirate]

It does if your a collector/hobbyist. One good example is the superman danae. While this beautiful coral was in circulation there was a wild sp. circulating as well and vendors were selling it as the superman. I believe the species was m.orientalis or something very similar which in the wild was blue with red polyps but in captivity was very difficult to keep its bright colors unlike the "original" from James.

 

[LBA]

Matters to me on Zoas and SPS more so than LPS. I like to know they're hardy and less prone to melting. I pay the extra for a better frag and I think it has definitely paid off in times of tank distress.

 

[FishLipz]

I'd say yes if I'm looking for a specific proven piece that has been kept with proven success. Then, I want to know it's from the original colony and how it was obtained from the original colony. I hate when people try to sling a fresh import (although many times a near identical piece) as something that is proven successful, especially when the asking price is what the proven piece costs. Now with that being said, I'm not against trying a new "look a like". Just be honest about it if questioned and don't expect me to pay through the nose for it.

 

[mallorieGgator]

I think lineage doesn't really matter but it's nice to trace it back to who it was from and to be able to say specifically, "this is a bubble gum monster" not "this is a green and blue chalice with pink eyes" because there are many chalices with pink eyes. When you give a name, people can envision a specific coral. To me it's not a deal breaker for a coral to have a name or lineage. I will buy it if I like it no matter what.

 

[ReefPops]

I'm finding myself on the fence with this one and almost finding it difficult to write a response. On one hand I think if it's cool and you like it, then lineage doesn't really matter. On the other side, I could see where it does and has played a role in my decision making, especially when buying an expensive frag. You want to know what you're buying and what it is going to look like as it grows and that it's going to be worth you money. When you are spending top dollar it does sound nice if it has a nice name attached to it, but really does it make sense to by something just because of the name? In general I find lineage must less important than buying from a reputable and trustworthy seller. At the end of the day, there are so many different varieties you may not know what the "real deal" is or even if the original was in fact the original. This being said, I do keep record of where I buy things and what the name was, just in case I turn around and sell. Even then, I'm not sure if I would want to sell it as a lineage piece or just a piece.

 

[Aquaph8]

Whats funny is two frags could come from the same colony in the ocean collected at different times and one be the "real deal" and the other be "the imposter". If it looks identical then its it IMO. I dont need a certificate of authenticity. If it gets so out of hand that people are selling things that arent even close then it bothers me a little. At one point people were selling anything that had a ring as hornets. I like buying and collecting corals as much as the next guy but some of my favorites are still the little piece some guy sold me for $5 that grew into something cool.

 

[mnat]

It really depends on the situation. I like lineage and names to a degree because you can tell if the piece has been around for a while and has been aquacultured and proven within our captive systems. For example tubbs blues have been around for ever and we know they grow well and what they look like. It also is good for growing conditions as you can ask other people placement/flow/lighting questions.

Unfortunately some vendors like to corrupt a good thing and use it for ripping people off. Lineage is really muddy right now because of the large amount of cultured rocks coming in that every vendor under the sun is getting. The polyps are all the same and it can be laughable when people try and throw names on just to mark it up. Look at the scarfaces, untouchables, etc etc zoas, they are all coming in on these rocks.

So in conclusion, like anything in the right hands it is great in the wrong hands it is wrong.

 

[btkrausen]

Please keep this thread clean of both vendor names and references to any vendor, sponsor or not.....

 

[chort55]

Lineage isn't important IMO, just like names.... I like colors. If I am looking for blue that day then sweet I found a nice blue piece, same with green, red, purple.......

The main reason I don't care about lineage or even names for that matter is simple, the impostors can actually be the real deal, just didnt come from Tom, maybe Larry got the other half of the original colony. See, funny thing alot of pieces come in, get split, then split again even before we see them initially, not to mention the pieces that get snapped off and shipped out to friends before release. Also, corals don't just only grow one piece in an area, there could be multiple colonies of the same exact coral scattered throughout the miles and miles of ocean floor they grow on so is that colony 10' away that looks identical not the same thing because it went to Larry instead of Tom who got the other one that was identical??? Also, morphs happen.... So even with lineage it might not look exactly like "it should" so then what the guy who actually kept perfect track has all the papers and can "prove" its real gets a bad rap because he placed it in different lighting or flow and it changed a little.....


But its cool I can provide lineage to every piece I own, I might not know everyone who's hands it has gone through but I know where it originated from.......

Have a nice day

 

[cdness]

But its cool I can provide lineage to every piece I own, I might not know everyone who's hands it has gone through but I know where it originated from.......

Have a nice day

Love this!! You have some good points.

 

[corals1dennis]

If you spend hundreds of dollars for a frag and want to make a little $ back when it grows out to compensate for the high price,then you better have some lineage.Also lineaged pieces keep the market value at a correct $.If there was no lineage all the fakes would drive down the price and the true strain of coral would be lost.In other words you end up with a bunch of less desirable corals with the same name.Just like when you buy a pedigree dog.You want to know from what bloodlines it came from and so on.Just like any hobby,there are different levels of collectability and prices to go along with it.If you do not agree with the prices and lineage simply do not buy them,but let those who collect high end pieces enjoy their level of collecting lineaged named pieces and make a little something back in the future with a piece that holds its value.

 

[chort55]

Love this!! You have some good points.

Thanks..... And that was just assuming that every named piece that hits the scene is from a wild colony, not even the open possibilities of being maricultured and aquacultured before receiving their cool name

Just for fun I will put this out there too..... I have a nice (IMO) colony that came in as a wild colony.... and I am 1000% certain I am not the only one that has it simply because I know the place I got it from kept a small piece, so If I name it and they name it something different which is the original and which is the knock-off??.... and I have a piece off my colony in another separate system that is showing different coloration then my main piece so far, is that a total fraud, or is it a morph that I should call something different althought it could morph back to the original in someone elses tank under different parameters, placement, and lighting?? Good thing I have lineage huh? lol