Does Lineage Really Matter?

[bkoppes]

I don't like buying something(high end zoa) that is named, and may look like exactly like a named piece, but melts within 2 days of going in my tank. Does something that has lineage mean that it has been in captivity for 6 months/12 months???

 

[Tabasco1]

I think the real question is this: do the people who care about lineage care enough to pay the premium or "registration fee" it would cost to have an organization where they could register the lineage of their coral?

I think lineage boils down to mostly the true collectors that are looking for a specific piece.

If you look at lineage like a pedigree, someone might be looking for a piece that originated from a specific mother colony or source. There might be others that look just like it but the came from a different source. Or there might be some that have all the characteristics but somehow are not quite as attractive. Just like a pedigree. Like I said before, I have 2 boxers. Of course both are boxers, both have akc pedigrees. When I purchased the 2nd boxer I was looking for very specific bloodline/pedigree. While the dog thing isn't totally apples to apples, I think in this particular point it is. Maybe you are just lookin for a boxer? You could rescue one and save a ton of $, you could buy a pet quality and save $. In both those instances an akc registration isn't really worth the paper it is printed on. What are you going to do w it? Only matters with champion bloodlines and breeding aka propogating and selling coral.

 

[Tabasco1]

Pipe dream, but Itd be awesome. One of the benefits to having a legitimate lineage system is that there would have to be standards set in order for the piece to be eligible for lineage registration. Such as minimum 6 months in captivity and so forth.

 

[hermesfansf]

Definitely Yes to me on z n p. I recently checked out a local reefer's tank who also has space monster. However, his is not tyree therefore they are less attractive than mine (tyree). But again, there is so many vendors out there manipulate the lighting and photoshop the pics, therefore, how can u tell what u see is what u get including z n p.

 

[jonbar1]

Really just depends on the coral for me.
I use the lineage just as a way to track a coral I'm interested in and see if it's worth it to me to buy. I used to always want an Oregon Tort for example. I could search the web and see people from all over the country who had pieces from the same mother colony and see how it looked in countless peoples hands and environments. I can tell you, when I get the craving for a blue tort I'm gonna want to get an Oregon Tort that I know is in fact that same coral I've been tracking over the years. The only way I'm gonna be able to do that is with some type of lineage.

On the other hand, I always wanted a "real" War Coral as well. There really weren't any other sources than from the original colony at the time, so lineage didn't mean much. Eventually they were released to the market in quantity from the wild and the price dropped considerably. I eventually saw one in person for sale and it met my criteria of what I liked about the "real" one so I bought it. Not being from the original colony doesn't matter to me with this coral at all. Then again, if I sell a frag of it I doubt anyone would ask if it's the original...

 

[shecter]

I don't think it matters as long as the appearence is there. But at the same time when someone is trying to charge 150 an eye for a chalice because it has jf on the front of the title it better be what its supposed to be. As well as the high end zoas. I had no idea there were zoas were up to over 300 a polyp.

 

[Steelerfan747]

I think lineage is only really important those that are trying to have a stock list of rare items, those interested in reselling later our those just interested in bragging

 

[turbo21]

Having lineage also gives the vendors bragging rights. When you see there name out there in front of 50 different corals, they are known for bringing in the rarer pieces and can also boost their sales.

The lineage debate was really going strong a little while ago when the red dragon acros were coming in. You have a beautiful piece that got named and a price tag to go with it. Then the new shipments of depwater acros started coming in to the wholesalers and everyone snatched them up and were trying to sell them as the red dragon acros, when they were not from the original colony. They took on a totally differnet coor after being in captivity. So having a true red dragon acro that was lneaged had alot of benefits

If you think it is bad now with the name game, wait until someone comes up with lineage registration. There will be 20 different names for the same piece.
You wont see just 30 types of utter chaos paly morphs, you will have 30 different names and when everything has a cool name even though they are almost the same piece, names wont matter

One thing about the lineage is the importance of it dies of after a while. I remember when the tyree watermellon chalices came out years and years ago. I was standing in Aquaworld looking at the frags and couldnt believe the color contrast and the price tag. Jeff didnt come up with the name or the price, but just sold it for what the market was demanding. Now fast forward and there are 200 differnet watermellon chalices out there. Can anybody who buys some of the original watermellon chalices now really trace them back to Tyree. Doubtfull

Bob

 

[rjbesch]

My opinion on the matter is I think it plays a big factor in resale value and often, IME, means you are getting quality merchandise, much like buying name brand products such as clothing. Me personally, I don't care if there is lineage or not. If I like it and it is within my means/budget I will buy it. I do have named pieces but also some that I don't know if they have names or not and I like them just as much as the next piece.

 

[chort55]

Really guys, comparing z's / p's to championship bloodlines in dogs......lol! Championship bloodline dogs are bred what like once a year or 2, MAX, how many of you are only fragging your precious polyps once a year or 2 and only releasing a few of the best quality pieces off those "champion" colonies. But ok thats fine, use that as your justification for it....

I used to own my own landscaping company, Dandelions are weeds, one of the better looking ones sure I guess, but they are weeds... can you imagine the look on a customers face if I would have tried to sell them a clump of dandelions for $$$ and justified it with "its ok I know where it came from and I named them Chorts Dandelions".... WOULD YOU BUY THEIR "FRAGS"???? And they should hold their value pretty good too, since I will allow you to say that they came from my top stock of Dandelions, and I'll even give you a pretty little piece of paper I printed on my regular printer. Heck I'll even make a fancy water mark and stuff to deem them official. If anyone is really that interested in lineaged weeds I will gladly ship you one of my precious little dandelions directly from my own personal stock (on the other side of my fence in my woods, where they have been growing for years, seasonally of course) for a measly $5000 + shipping. I won't garauntee they will live longer then non-chorts dandelions, but these things are amazing, even when I think they have died off, and the snow comes.... They always come back next spring

 

[hlem]

i see some people are saying "lineage = quality"... is that really???

To me "lineage = first person who got the first piece/colony, naming it, and is calling it 'one of a kind', which is 100% true at THAT time."

Were all sub-sequence red/blue/purple hornets when it was still hot came from the "original" hornets that sold for $$$? :neutral:

 

[mainereefer]

it only matters to the seller so they can try and get the big bucks.

 

[shred5]

No because most people and allot of vendors see a coral and it looks similar to a popular one and throw the name on it to get more money and sell faster and does not come from the original colony.

Again I use this story: I remember a few years back probably more than a few now, Tyree came out with a new LE and within a few months there were vendors and people selling the same coral. Only problem is Tyree had only release a few so far and there was no way vendors or anyone could have grown out frags yet especially in the quantities that were being sold.

These people made the name mean nothing anymore and the fact this is happening more and more it will push prices down. Allso the sheer quantity of named corals will also do it.

If you like a coral and it fits well with your system buy it and don't wory about the name.

 

[hlem]

No because most people and allot of vendors see a coral and it looks similar to a popular one and throw the name on it to get more money and sell faster and does not come from the original colony.

Again I use this story: I remember a few years back probably more than a few now Tyree came out with a new LE and within a few months there were vendors and people selling the same coral. Only problem is Tyree had only release a few so far and there was no way vendors or anyone could have grown out frags yet especially in the quantities that were being sold.

did the other vendors called their piece "Tyree LE something something" too? if not, then why does it matter, if they just call it "John Doe something something"... if they did in fact used "Tyree LE something something", then that's where the problem started...

 

[Techbiker]

Not at all, we should just use the correct name , do we all can share our experiences, and observations with the piece, if you pay a big price that is call free market
And if you willing to pay good for you, but if it is given as a donation, won't have the same value

 

[REEFKEEPER10]

Honestly to me other than bragging right it doesn't matter what it's called. I buy what I like and really don't care about fancy names. I understand vendors doing it because if they didn't all frags would be about the same price and they would loose money for the rare ones. I'm still trying to figure out the differents between a acro and porite coral. Lol

 

[shred5]

I'm still trying to figure out the differents between a acro and porite coral. Lol

Porites has recessed coralites, Acropora does not.

 

[Steven R]

lineage matters to me sometimes.. I bought that piece I knew it was not a O.G soprano I have been well informed by a reliable person that has been doing the polyps of z's and p's for along time and they are a solid person to deal with when it comes to polyps on the normal I deal with him and one other person who has been doing this for awhile also and they are both private collectors. So I knew it was not a og soprano It just stood out to me and I am a collector myself even even though when it comes to paly's I am sorta still green when it comes to the rare ones.. All that matters is i am happy with the polyp no matter where it came from. So long story short lineage matters if I am going for the bigger named ones and the seller can prove it normal'y if they are reputable..

 

[turbo21]

But here is the question. If your frag does great and you grow it out to 30 polyps and frag it. Are you going to sell a frag of it labeled as sopranos? Probably not because you know they aren't the og version. But someone who might be less than honest would say I bought it as a soprano so I can sell it as a soprano. And someone wanting the original version didn't pay for what they wanted. I am headed to the Cleveland swap this weekend and have been paying very close attention to drag swapper. Bit is amazing the amount of z and ps. That are listed incorrectly up for sale. Ie. dearth mauls that are clearly not and not even a morph but because they are orange or someone told them they are dearth mails that is how they are being sold. Of I didn't know better or did the research of checking tons of other pics. I might have bought them and continued the trend of having the wrong name. I don't want to buy them for the name but how they look. I don't want something close. I want what I saw in all the pics listed online.

Bob

lineage matters to me sometimes.. I bought that piece I knew it was not a O.G soprano I have been well informed by a reliable person that has been doing the polyps of z's and p's for along time and they are a solid person to deal with when it comes to polyps on the normal I deal with him and one other person who has been doing this for awhile also and they are both private collectors. So I knew it was not a og soprano It just stood out to me and I am a collector myself even even though when it comes to paly's I am sorta still green when it comes to the rare ones.. All that matters is i am happy with the polyp no matter where it came from. So long story short lineage matters if I am going for the bigger named ones and the seller can prove it normal'y if they are reputable..

 

[Paul_N]

For me as someone who buys coral for my own personal pleasure, no. If I were buying to resell or if I was a vendor then yes.

+10000000000000000000!

All I care about is if I like the way a coral looks. I do completely understand for someone that wants to sell or even collect then lineage matters.