Does my new Flameback Angel have velvet?

[stl_newb]

Heavy breathing and what looks to be white dusting came on suddenly. Other fish in the tank are doing fine. This only recently started a few hours ago.

He ate earlier today and seemed normal.

 

[stl_newb]

Heavy breathing and what looks to be white dusting came on suddenly. Other fish in the tank are doing fine. This only recently started a few hours ago.

He ate earlier today and seemed normal.

He’s not swimming near the surface a lot, not swimming into flow, and isn’t rubbing against rocks.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Heavy breathing and what looks to be white dusting came on suddenly. Other fish in the tank are doing fine. This only recently started a few hours ago.

He ate earlier today and seemed normal.

Video does not play. Try a you tube version video utilizing bright white light intensity, no blues

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Not seeing a YouTube video? Can you try uploading it again?

 

[stl_newb]

Video does not play. Try a you tube version video utilizing bright white light intensity, no blues

I deleted the video after my post was temporarily removed for some reason.

Fish died of velvet before I could get QT started. Of course, I’m on a business trip right now so the rest of my tank is almost certainly going to be wiped out.

Started the hobby five months ago and this is my only non QT fish because I had to leave for travel. So unlucky…

Thanks for replying anyway!

 

[vetteguy53081]

I deleted the video after my post was temporarily removed for some reason.

Fish died of velvet before I could get QT started. Of course, I’m on a business trip right now so the rest of my tank is almost certainly going to be wiped out.

Started the hobby five months ago and this is my only non QT fish because I had to leave for travel. So unlucky…

Thanks for replying anyway!

Sorry to hear. Consider quarantining in the future. Its worth it

 

[stl_newb]

Sorry to hear. Consider quarantining in the future. Its worth it

Thanks.

And yes — I normally QT but couldn’t in this case because I was leaving for travel shortly after picking up the fish. All my other fish were QT or captive. This was the only exception. Fish was in copper for three weeks at my very reputable LFS, but LFS can only do so much.

Very bad luck

 

[MnFish1]

I deleted the video after my post was temporarily removed for some reason.

Fish died of velvet before I could get QT started. Of course, I’m on a business trip right now so the rest of my tank is almost certainly going to be wiped out.

Started the hobby five months ago and this is my only non QT fish because I had to leave for travel. So unlucky…

Thanks for replying anyway!

Your fish likely did not have velvet - FWIW, Velvet in SW fish usually presents with breathing issues - not any 'dusty appearance'. Sorry about the fish. The time disease strikes is when you have some delay, travel issues - it's the bad luck. Next time would recommend full quarantine and not ordering fish before leaving. PS - if you fish had velvet it would have rapidly killed the rest as well

 

[stl_newb]

Your fish likely did not have velvet - FWIW, Velvet in SW fish usually presents with breathing issues - not any 'dusty appearance'. Sorry about the fish. The time disease strikes is when you have some delay, travel issues - it's the bad luck. Next time would recommend full quarantine and not ordering fish before leaving. PS - if you fish had velvet it would have rapidly killed the rest as well

Sorry for deleting the video (I thought mods removed my post), but the fish was breathing very rapidly and had head twitching in addition to the dusting. That’s actually what prompted me to come to R2R — the comments on the original video I posted on Reddit told me to come here because of the rapid breathing.

You’re right about the timing and fish QT. The LFS had a Father’s Day sale and this was a fish I’ve wanted since I began the hobby. The three weeks of copper and LFS’s reputation gave me a false sense of security.

I have fish on order of with Fishotel and all my other current fish were captive or QTd. This is the one exception I made and paid the price for it (deservedly).

 

[christinna77]

I'm linking the original Reddit post here since the video is still up:

The angel was breathing very fast and passed within a day of the symptoms first showing up. According to the OP, nothing else in the tank was affected and all the other fish were/are still doing fine.

 

[stl_newb]

I'm linking the original Reddit post here since the video is still up:

The angel was breathing very fast and passed within a day of the symptoms first showing up. According to the OP, nothing else in the tank was affected and all the other fish were/are still doing fine.

Update: Just got back from my work trip and all the other fish seem to be doing ok. Could this have been brooklynella, not marine velvet? No heavy breathing — everyone else is eating well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ReefTank/s/TGADVuWlsr

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Update: Just got back from my work trip and all the other fish seem to be doing ok. Could this have been brooklynella, not marine velvet? No heavy breathing — everyone else is eating well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ReefTank/s/TGADVuWlsr

The video I saw *could* have been Amyloodinium (velvet). The time to death lines up. However, when there are that many propagules in the water, other fish will be affected as well, the disease doesn't limit itself to just one fish like that.

Brooklynella mostly infects wild caught clownfish. It can spread to other species (like royal gramma) but it always has the symptom of excess mucus production which I didn't see in the angel in the video. That said, Centropyge angels have ctenoid scales and not a lot of mucus, so *maybe* they would show Brook differently.

What other fish are in the tank and still doing well though?

 

[stl_newb]

Update: Just got back from my work trip and all the other fish seem to be doing ok. Could this have been brooklynella, not marine velvet? No heavy breathing — everyone else is eating well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ReefTank/s/TGADVuWlsr

The video I saw *could* have been Amyloodinium (velvet). The time to death lines up. However, when there are that many propagules in the water, other fish will be affected as well, the disease doesn't limit itself to just one fish like that.

Brooklynella mostly infects wild caught clownfish. It can spread to other species (like royal gramma) but it always has the symptom of excess mucus production which I didn't see in the angel in the video. That said, Centropyge angels have ctenoid scales and not a lot of mucus, so *maybe* they would show Brook differently.

What other fish are in the tank and still doing well though?

Thank you for the reply! The other fish are:

- 2 Frostbite clowns
- 1 royal gramma
- 1 Midas blenny

For reference, here’s how the flameback angel looked immediately after he passed:

** Warning — Dead Livestock Photo ***
link:

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you for the reply! The other fish are:

- 2 Frostbite clowns
- 1 royal gramma
- 1 Midas blenny

For reference, here’s how the flameback angel looked immediately after he passed:

** Warning — Dead Livestock Photo ***
link:

The open mouth shows signs of an oxygen deficiency, but that can be from a number of causes. The body discoloration could be postmortem (how long do you think it was dead before the photo?) but it could also be a sign of a massive bacterial infection.

In the end, given the clowns and gramma not showing symptoms, I think you can rule out Brook. Since none of other other fish are showing rapid breathing, (right?) I think you can rule out Amyloodinium/velvet.

That leave some specific disease for just the angel - bacterial or coccidia.

 

[stl_newb]

The photos of the fish post mortem are literally within a minute of passing. I was recording a video of him in the QT tank and those are stills from the video.

He was whiting very aggressively for three hours. When I first saw heavy breathing, the white dusting was only pea sized.

 

[stl_newb]

The open mouth shows signs of an oxygen deficiency, but that can be from a number of causes. The body discoloration could be postmortem (how long do you think it was dead before the photo?) but it could also be a sign of a massive bacterial infection.

In the end, given the clowns and gramma not showing symptoms, I think you can rule out Brook. Since none of other other fish are showing rapid breathing, (right?) I think you can rule out Amyloodinium/velvet.

That leave some specific disease for just the angel - bacterial or coccidia.

The photos of the fish post mortem are literally within a minute of passing. I was recording a video of him in the QT tank and those are stills from the video.

He was whiting very aggressively for three hours. When I first saw heavy breathing, the white dusting was only pea sized.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

The photos of the fish post mortem are literally within a minute of passing. I was recording a video of him in the QT tank and those are stills from the video.

He was whiting very aggressively for three hours. When I first saw heavy breathing, the white dusting was only pea sized.

How long had you had the angelfish?

I looked at the post mortem picture again this morning and it jumped out at me - there is a discolored vertical band. It is wider than usual, so that threw me off, but I think the issue was Uronema. This is an internal protozoan that infects some species of newly acquired fish (so if you had this angel for more than a month, it isn't that).

If it was Uronema, it has a very low cross-infection rate. Here is an article I wrote about it:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/uronema-red-band-disease-hemdal.788/

 

[jmaneyapanda]

How long had you had the angelfish?

I looked at the post mortem picture again this morning and it jumped out at me - there is a discolored vertical band. It is wider than usual, so that threw me off, but I think the issue was Uronema. This is an internal protozoan that infects some species of newly acquired fish (so if you had this angel for more than a month, it isn't that).

If it was Uronema, it has a very low cross-infection rate. Here is an article I wrote about it:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/uronema-red-band-disease-hemdal.788/

Would it be Uronema without showing the red banding? That being said, discounting velvet and brook, Im not sure what else it could be.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Would it be Uronema without showing the red banding? That being said, discounting velvet and brook, Im not sure what else it could be.

The bands are usually red (due to the exposed muscle tissue) but this fish has a really broad, dark band, and I didn't see it at first for what it was.....

Also, Uronema and bacterial infections commonly coexist, as Uronema feeds on bacteria.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

The bands are usually red (due to the exposed muscle tissue) but this fish has a really broad, dark band, and I didn't see it at first for what it was.....

Also, Uronema and bacterial infections commonly coexist, as Uronema feeds on bacteria.

It also appears a much deeper ulcer at the bottom of the band too. I guess I had just never seen uronema without the red coloration to the banding. That also being said, I typically only see uronema in chromis and anthias, and no darker colored angels, so maybe I was applyinga logic to it that doesnt necessarily apply.