Dosing Acropower - Daily or Weekly?

[BlueWorldJeff]

I have a 180 gallon mixed reef with mostly SPS. Lit by LED and flow by two Tunze 6105 powerheads and a Waveline DC-6000 return pump.

My current params are 8 dKH Alk, 420 Ca, 1250 Mg, .10 P04, 5 NO3

I'd like to see if I can get more growth and color from my SPS. I also cant grow digitata either, so I am wondering if an amino acid suppleemnt will help.

I have a bottle of AcroPower and it says to dose 5 ml/25 gallons weekly. That would put me at 40ml/week.

Should I do the full 40 ml on one day during the week ( I read dosing during the day is prefered). or should I dose less one time per week

Or should I cut it up and dose 5 ml 5-7 days a week or less amount?

I dont think I will be able to dose every day based on schedule. I also dont want to overdose either.

thank you for your help

 

[BigJohnny]

Once a week is probably fine. Having said that, you have sufficient (likely more than, and I'll get to that) nutrient levels for your dkH, and im not sure how much the aminos would help color/growth in your situation. They might though and i see no harm in trying. The three components that may need tuning (and you'll probably see better colors adjusting these rather than dosing aminos) are flow, dkh, and maybe lighting.

How much average par do your acros get and for how long?

How high do you have those tunzes cranked up, if you had to estimate turnover? If your sand doesn't move a little imo you don't have enough.

What I'm getting at is I think you could likely increase growth/coloration by cranking up your flow, raising your dkH to 8.5-9 dkH, and MAYBE providing more overall par (weather in duration or intensity, I'll need to see some info first). I would not increase lighting and dkH simultaneously however. I would increase flow regardless unless your really up there already.

Your nutrients are high enough to support faster growth rates from a higher dkH. Just make sure to monitor them if you decide to raise it because anything lower than .03ppm phosphate and 2-5 ppm nitrate above 8.5-9 dkH has caused issues for me before.

Another thing to check is to make sure your potassium levels are in check (salifert potassium test kit). Low potassium levels can lead to pour coloration and health in acropora. It is not a trace element, it is actually one of the 4 main components of saltwater. It's probably fine, but I'd check just to be sure.

How often do you do water changes and what percentage? What salt mix?

-BigJ

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

Once a week is probably fine. Having said that, you have sufficient (likely more than, and I'll get to that) nutrient levels for your dkH, and im not sure how much the aminos would help color/growth in your situation. They might though and i see no harm in trying. The three components that may need tuning (and you'll probably see better colors adjusting these rather than dosing aminos) are flow, dkh, and maybe lighting.

How much average par do your acros get and for how long?

How high do you have those tunzes cranked up, if you had to estimate turnover? If your sand doesn't move a little imo you don't have enough.

What I'm getting at is I think you could likely increase growth/coloration by cranking up your flow, raising your dkH to 8.5-9 dkH, and MAYBE providing more overall par (weather in duration or intensity, I'll need to see some info first). I would not increase lighting and dkH simultaneously however. I would increase flow regardless unless your really up there already.

Your nutrients are high enough to support faster growth rates from a higher dkH. Just make sure to monitor them if you decide to raise it because anything lower than .03ppm phosphate and 2-5 ppm nitrate above 8.5-9 dkH has caused issues for me before.

Another thing to check is to make sure your potassium levels are in check (salifert potassium test kit). Low potassium levels can lead to pour coloration and health in acropora. It is not a trace element, it is actually one of the 4 main components of saltwater. It's probably fine, but I'd check just to be sure.

How often do you do water changes and what percentage? What salt mix?

-BigJ

Thank you for your reply. I agree I could probably make some changes to my current setup and get better growth/color. It's not bad now, but we are always looking for bigger and better, right?

Right now I run 3 RapidLED Onyx units . They are there channels(white, blue, mixed) and I use my Apex to dim the colors starting at 8 am until 8 pm. Blues and mixed goto 100% for about 4 hours midday while whites only go to 50% for that time. It gets me a 18-20k look but LEDs are deceptive to the human eye. I have a seneye i use to measure PAR. I did some measurements the other day to place my Setosa. Up top was 600+ around midday with bottom being around 150. Lower in some areas due to lighting gaps, shading and the large glass cross members of the tank( why are they frosted?!)

My tunzes are on a program that would best be described as chaotic. For the most part the alternate between 50 and 100% for 3 seconds. There are three times that run independent of this. One makes the tank flush to one side, then the other (one at 100,% other at zero, then switch after 5 min. Then there is a both on tidal surge and also a night time 40,% for both. I have the wide screens on the tunzes. It definitely blew around to the oolite sand before i went to sea floor special grade . The only thing I have considered is where they point. Right now the are in the back sides and point up and a little in (maybe 20 degrees). I get good flow to the front but most people have them in the sides blowing in front of the reef. With my aquascape, the rock is in the middle so water can go all around. I used to have the tunzes on the back wall facing the front and bounce flow that way. I guess for power heads would be better, but I have to make due with what I got now.

I was getting 8.5 to 9 dkh with my Hanna checker, but the salifert alk test said 8 and I confirmed with the alk calibration sample included. I've always had good tests with Hanna, bad reagent? I need to get more, so I'll do both for a couple tests after. I haven't measured potassium in awhile. Doesn't that help with blues?

I do biweekly 30 gallon water changes with instant ocean salt.

What are the highest nutrient levels I can run with ALK 8.5-9?

 

[BigJohnny]

Thank you for your reply. I agree I could probably make some changes to my current setup and get better growth/color. It's not bad now, but we are always looking for bigger and better, right?

Right now I run 3 RapidLED Onyx units . They are there channels(white, blue, mixed) and I use my Apex to dim the colors starting at 8 am until 8 pm. Blues and mixed goto 100% for about 4 hours midday while whites only go to 50% for that time. It gets me a 18-20k look but LEDs are deceptive to the human eye. I have a seneye i use to measure PAR. I did some measurements the other day to place my Setosa. Up top was 600+ around midday with bottom being around 150. Lower in some areas due to lighting gaps, shading and the large glass cross members of the tank( why are they frosted?!)

My tunzes are on a program that would best be described as chaotic. For the most part the alternate between 50 and 100% for 3 seconds. There are three times that run independent of this. One makes the tank flush to one side, then the other (one at 100,% other at zero, then switch after 5 min. Then there is a both on tidal surge and also a night time 40,% for both. I have the wide screens on the tunzes. It definitely blew around to the oolite sand before i went to sea floor special grade . The only thing I have considered is where they point. Right now the are in the back sides and point up and a little in (maybe 20 degrees). I get good flow to the front but most people have them in the sides blowing in front of the reef. With my aquascape, the rock is in the middle so water can go all around. I used to have the tunzes on the back wall facing the front and bounce flow that way. I guess for power heads would be better, but I have to make due with what I got now.

I was getting 8.5 to 9 dkh with my Hanna checker, but the salifert alk test said 8 and I confirmed with the alk calibration sample included. I've always had good tests with Hanna, bad reagent? I need to get more, so I'll do both for a couple tests after. I haven't measured potassium in awhile. Doesn't that help with blues?

I do biweekly 30 gallon water changes with instant ocean salt.

What are the highest nutrient levels I can run with ALK 8.5-9?

Flow sounds pretty good based on your description, but more = better if possible.

For the hanna, are you wearing gloves while you do the test and cleaning the outside of the vial with a microfiber cloth before c1 and c2? Once you determine your alk, I'd raise it up to 8.5. You could probably go to 9 but your nitrates at 5ppm are right on the low edge of that dkH allowance imo.

As far as the highest nutrient levels you can run with 8.5-9 dkh, that depends entirely on your tank and I wouldn't worry about it too much. Having not enough is way more of an issue imo. I'd shoot for 8.5 dkH, and maintain your nutrients as is. Simple and safe.

Potassium- all I know is that I have had wideapread stn/rtn on two occasions from low potassium (it was really low like 260) I know it was that because when I fixed the potassium on both occasions it stopped and the acros came back with better color than ever. Another tank I had slightly low potassium (350) and after raising it to 400 had significant improvements in color of all acros, within a few days.

I wouldn't tweak the lighting as it is the least important imo and probably fine. Dose acropower too, might help facilitate the faster growth rate.

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

Flow sounds pretty good based on your description, but more = better if possible.

For the hanna, are you wearing gloves while you do the test and cleaning the outside of the vial with a microfiber cloth before c1 and c2? Once you determine your alk, I'd raise it up to 8.5. You could probably go to 9 but your nitrates at 5ppm are right on the low edge of that dkH allowance imo.

As far as the highest nutrient levels you can run with 8.5-9 dkh, that depends entirely on your tank and I wouldn't worry about it too much. Having not enough is way more of an issue imo. I'd shoot for 8.5 dkH, and maintain your nutrients as is. Simple and safe.

Potassium- all I know is that I have had wideapread stn/rtn on two occasions from low potassium (it was really low like 260) I know it was that because when I fixed the potassium on both occasions it stopped and the acros came back with better color than ever. Another tank I had slightly low potassium (350) and after raising it to 400 had significant improvements in color of all acros, within a few days.

I wouldn't tweak the lighting as it is the least important imo and probably fine. Dose acropower too, might help facilitate the faster growth rate.

Should I do the whole 40 ml once a week right from the start for acropower?

Think I should move my tunzes?

 

[BigJohnny]

Should I do the whole 40 ml once a week right from the start for acropower?

Think I should move my tunzes?

You know, I'd really minimize how many changes you make at once. It's possible that moving your tunzes will generate more flow, but I wouldn't raise your dkh, move your tunzes, and dose acropower necessarily now that I think about it. Then you won't know what did it.

If I were you the first thing I would do is raise my dkh and wait a month or two, monitoring growth and coloration. Make sure your nutrients don't drop too much.

You can dose acropower on top of it if you want but then you won't know if the acropower did anything or if it's just the higher dkh.

For the tunzes, I think adding more power heads would increase flow more than just moving them. But since I can't see your flow I'm not sure you need to.

 

[Whipples]

I agree with @BigJohnny and change one thing at a time, observe for a week, maybe even two, then adjust again. Nothing good happens fast

I don't have the same coral load as you but I feed Reef Roids twice a week via broadcast. I've seen the fish eat some out of the column when I do that, and I've been struggling to keep detectable nitrates.

 

[BigJohnny]

I agree with @BigJohnny and change one thing at a time, observe for a week, maybe even two, then adjust again. Nothing good happens fast

I don't have the same coral load as you but I feed Reef Roids twice a week via broadcast. I've seen the fish eat some out of the column when I do that, and I've been struggling to keep detectable nitrates.

Only thing I'd add is wait at least a month between changes. Acros can be slow to adjust. Just to be safe

Thanks whipp

 

[Ashish Patel]

I use acropower daily (at night) because I suffer from low nutrients Nitrates are 0.03 and PO are 0.02-0.07.
Your tank has enough nutrients so I would not dose 40ML per week. Also, take stock of your livestock.. a tank with 2ooML of ALK consumption does not need the same as a tank with 20ML ALK consumption. Therefore the suggested ML per gallon rule should be taken with a very small grain of salt.. If I was you as others have stated, I would increase your ALK and flow and see how the tank responds daily and see if you notice any improvements. Acropower is very misleading especially since you have no idea what is in it.. all you need to know it is Nutrients!. When my nutrients in my system are dangerously low I find acropower helps immensely. If your corals are not bleaching or dieing don't do anything drastic since it could just be a water parameter issue or lighting issue.

 

[McMullen]

Thank you for your reply. I agree I could probably make some changes to my current setup and get better growth/color. It's not bad now, but we are always looking for bigger and better, right?

Right now I run 3 RapidLED Onyx units . They are there channels(white, blue, mixed) and I use my Apex to dim the colors starting at 8 am until 8 pm. Blues and mixed goto 100% for about 4 hours midday while whites only go to 50% for that time. It gets me a 18-20k look but LEDs are deceptive to the human eye. I have a seneye i use to measure PAR. I did some measurements the other day to place my Setosa. Up top was 600+ around midday with bottom being around 150. Lower in some areas due to lighting gaps, shading and the large glass cross members of the tank( why are they frosted?!)

My tunzes are on a program that would best be described as chaotic. For the most part the alternate between 50 and 100% for 3 seconds. There are three times that run independent of this. One makes the tank flush to one side, then the other (one at 100,% other at zero, then switch after 5 min. Then there is a both on tidal surge and also a night time 40,% for both. I have the wide screens on the tunzes. It definitely blew around to the oolite sand before i went to sea floor special grade . The only thing I have considered is where they point. Right now the are in the back sides and point up and a little in (maybe 20 degrees). I get good flow to the front but most people have them in the sides blowing in front of the reef. With my aquascape, the rock is in the middle so water can go all around. I used to have the tunzes on the back wall facing the front and bounce flow that way. I guess for power heads would be better, but I have to make due with what I got now.

I was getting 8.5 to 9 dkh with my Hanna checker, but the salifert alk test said 8 and I confirmed with the alk calibration sample included. I've always had good tests with Hanna, bad reagent? I need to get more, so I'll do both for a couple tests after. I haven't measured potassium in awhile. Doesn't that help with blues?

I do biweekly 30 gallon water changes with instant ocean salt.

What are the highest nutrient levels I can run with ALK 8.5-9?

60 gallon WCs per week??
30gal WC bi-weekly??

 

[BigJohnny]

I use acropower daily (at night) because I suffer from low nutrients Nitrates are 0.03 and PO are 0.02-0.07.
Your tank has enough nutrients so I would not dose 40ML per week. Also, take stock of your livestock.. a tank with 2ooML of ALK consumption does not need the same as a tank with 20ML ALK consumption. Therefore the suggested ML per gallon rule should be taken with a very small grain of salt.. If I was you as others have stated, I would increase your ALK and flow and see how the tank responds daily and see if you notice any improvements. Acropower is very misleading especially since you have no idea what is in it.. all you need to know it is Nutrients!. When my nutrients in my system are dangerously low I find acropower helps immensely. If your corals are not bleaching or dieing don't do anything drastic since it could just be a water parameter issue or lighting issue.

Trust Ashish on the acropower advice, he has a lot of experience with acropora and amino acids/nutrient levels. It's more suited to tanks with low nutrient levels. It is why you see zeovit dosing aminos. It's possible it could still do something for you, but we both agree that you could increase alk n flow and achieve better results.

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

I'll get some new Hanna Alk reagent and get my alk up to 8.5. I dont wear gloves when I test, but I do wipe off the cuvettes before inserting into the checker. I'll double check with Salifert too

This may be a stupid question, but is there a chart/graphic/relationship that shows the desired alk levels for nutrient levels or is it acceptable nutrient levels for certain alk ranges. I know there are max nutrient levels but is this driven or affected by alk levels? I know all tanks are different, just sounds like a direct relationship between the three (alk - NO3/PO4)

 

[BlueWorldJeff]

Just a FYI, I dose Alk for 4:40 per hour for 7 hours at night. With a Drews Doser at 1.6ml/min, thats about 52ml per day

 

[BigJohnny]

This may be a stupid question, but is there a chart/graphic/relationship that shows the desired alk levels for nutrient levels or is it acceptable nutrient levels for certain alk ranges. I know there are max nutrient levels but is this driven or affected by alk levels? I know all tanks are different, just sounds like a direct relationship between the three (alk - NO3/PO4)

Not a stupid question at all, and it would be awesome if it was that simple, but there are too many other variables, and the numbers I've given are just anecdotal guidelines based on my experiences and the experiences of others.

For example: two different tanks both run at 9 dkH and 10ppm nitrate/.08 phosphate. Even have the exact same light n powerheads, but one has acros in 500 par and powerheads at 100%, the other has 150 par and runs powerheads at 50%, it is my opinion that the tank with higher flow and par would suffer more if the nitrate and phosphate dropped the same amount as the other tank.

Now even that scenario assumes all other things equal, which is impossible. One tank could have different species of acropora, one tank could have established colonies versus frags, one tank could have higher nutrient export so even though the measurable nitrates and phosphates in the tank are equal, that tank could have more available nutrients for the corals. I'm not even scratching the surface here (bacteria populations, refugium, amino acid dosing, coral foods, stability, etc)

I think the most important take away regardless is that neither nitrate nor phosphate should ever hit zero (or near zero) unless you are feeding the corals through ulns systems like zeovit and have alk under 8 dkH. Just my opinion and many others who I trust.

 

[bubbaque]

I use acropower daily (at night) because I suffer from low nutrients Nitrates are 0.03 and PO are 0.02-0.07.
Your tank has enough nutrients so I would not dose 40ML per week. Also, take stock of your livestock.. a tank with 2ooML of ALK consumption does not need the same as a tank with 20ML ALK consumption. Therefore the suggested ML per gallon rule should be taken with a very small grain of salt.. If I was you as others have stated, I would increase your ALK and flow and see how the tank responds daily and see if you notice any improvements. Acropower is very misleading especially since you have no idea what is in it.. all you need to know it is Nutrients!. When my nutrients in my system are dangerously low I find acropower helps immensely. If your corals are not bleaching or dieing don't do anything drastic since it could just be a water parameter issue or lighting issue.

Just a tip I believe Acropower and other aminos are suppose to be dosed during the lights on period.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Just a tip I believe Acropower and other aminos are suppose to be dosed during the lights on period.

Everywhere I read PPL said to dose at night! However, I don't know if this is true or if it really matters. I am gonna start adding 5ML via Dosing pump so could just do it throughout the day.

 

[bubbaque]

You feed particle food at night and aminos during the day.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I'll have to give this a try!

 

[TbyZ]

Everywhere I read PPL said to dose at night! However, I don't know if this is true or if it really matters. I am gonna start adding 5ML via Dosing pump so could just do it throughout the day.

I find that when i dose aminos during the illumination period i get algae on the glass. Doesn't seem to occur if i dose aminos when dark.

 

[TbyZ]

I find that when i dose aminos during the illumination period i get algae on the glass. Doesn't seem to occur if i dose aminos when dark.

But this article http://successfulreefkeeping.com/learn/about-corals/what-corals-eat/ says- "Scientists also found that urea and amino acids are more actively taken up during the day and may be integral to building the organic matrix that aids the formation of aragonite crystals, increasing the density and strength of the coral skeleton."