Dosing PO4 (Trident NP)

[AustinJT]

Hi Guys, my Trident NP still read PO4 as Zero.

None of my test kits show any PO4 level too. Salifter, Sera, Red Sea & Hanna Checker (I have the ppm one, not the ppb one).

So I have no choice but to Calibrate NP with my own water which is 5ppm + Zero PO4.

NO3 is now consistent with my Hanna LR Checker.

Now I am considering dosing PO4 but I'm not entire sure if I'm completely lacking PO4 because I still have maybe 1-2% of algae, it's on the rock but not growing algae, more like a Green-stain on the Rocks. Some part of the rocks, just look green, like maybe Green Coralline? But nothing grow on it, it just stained green as if someone painted the rock green. You can see surface of the rocks & its pores but the part is just green. And it's green like about 15% of the hold Rock-scape, in parts, various places, so it's not alot either.

I haven't closely follow up PO4 in years... Because of those green stains, I just believe my PO4 is high enough, so I always use RowaPhos at 120% recommended rate and do a stable 2.5mth replacement + a tight schedule of Bio-pellet add-in + strict schedule on water change.

Everything is growing well, I figured if nothing broken, no needs to fix. The only issue I have is SPS that now colored up, it's growing fine, just not showing any exotic colors and I suspect it because of Lighting. When I use AB+ on Mobius. If use the one for SPS dominant, LPS started to bleach.

That is until I get Tri-NP and it's bugging me badly that PO4 read Zero for months now since I first got it. Should I fix it?

If so, should I reduced RowaPhos or Dosing PO4, and if dosing PO4, which brand?

Also, does anyone know where to get correct sample to Calibrate NP? The original one said to be NO3 = 50ppm + Zero PO4 which many users believe too big of a margin for LNS.

I saw a 5ppm Calibration on Amazon but it has no PO4 and review not good!

Thank you!!!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Definitely stop the GFO.

In this scenario, feeding more is also a good option, but I’d do either dosing or feeding more.

 

[AustinJT]

Definitely stop the GFO.

In this scenario, feeding more is also a good option, but I’d do either dosing or feeding more.

The way I feed is creating at least 2.5ppm of Nitrate everyday.

I had to dose 25ml of Vodka to combat its rise.

If I don't dose Vodka, it's will be from 2.5ppm to 5ppm in one day, then to 7.5ppm the next day.

If I maintain the dosage of 25ml vodka, it's stay constant between 2.5-2.8ppm.

I try to check PO4 dosing, I only found absorbing & export.

Can you recommend a Brand for dosing?

 

[Jimbo327]

Stop GFO, start feeding. Reef Roids have high PO4.

 

[AustinJT]

Stop GFO, start feeding. Reef Roids have high PO4.

I don't have Reef Roids. I have Fauna Marin.

Though I don't feed daily.

I feed once a week only...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you have fish in this tank?

 

[JerryB1232]

The food you are inputing is creating phosphate along with the elevation in nitrate you are seeing, but the GFO is probably removing the phosphate too effectively. I would keep everything you are routinely doing the same to prevent affecting other variables trying to fix the phosphate issue. I would just carefully step down the phosphate export to match the amount imported, and then if this doesn’t work I would dose trisodium phosphate

 

[AustinJT]

The food you are inputing is creating phosphate along with the elevation in nitrate you are seeing, but the GFO is probably removing the phosphate too effectively. I would keep everything you are routinely doing the same to prevent affecting other variables trying to fix the phosphate issue. I would just carefully step down the phosphate export to match the amount imported, and then if this doesn’t work I would dose trisodium phosphate

Thank you.

I think first step is to to reduce GFO to 70-80%. Then... I'll start.

Another issue is... I'm not sure how reliable Trident NP is.

As for my reactor, maybe GFO effect has something to do with it. I saw an old version of Skimmer about 10yrs ago. They create this outlet inside bubble chamber and it make the bubble inside skimmer spinning. So I copy its decide and customize my own reactor. So media inside isn't just tumbling but it's spinning, so maybe that make GFO overworked?

 

[AustinJT]

Do you have fish in this tank?

Yes.

2 Dori, 2 Snowflake, 1 Powder Blue, 1 Blonde Naso, 1 Rabbitfish, 2 Flame Angel, 1 Flasher Wrasse, 1 Singapore Butterfly, 3 Dragon Pipefish, 1 Mandarin and dozen of Azure Damsel and some Molly Blenny.

I also have 2 Maxima Claim that is almost 3yrs old now. But I never feed. Somehow it lives. Though I feed Fauna Marin, the orange one.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So I presume the only feed once a week comment related to the coral food only?

 

[JerryB1232]

Thank you.

I think first step is to to reduce GFO to 70-80%. Then... I'll start.

Another issue is... I'm not sure how reliable Trident NP is.

As for my reactor, maybe GFO effect has something to do with it. I saw an old version of Skimmer about 10yrs ago. They create this outlet inside bubble chamber and it make the bubble inside skimmer spinning. So I copy its decide and customize my own reactor. So media inside isn't just tumbling but it's spinning, so maybe that make GFO overworked?

I don’t know about the trident np or much about GFO reactors, but I would do some research as to if you need to reduce flow through the reactor or reduce the amount of GFO in the reactor. I would lean towards reduce flow, but do your research and make changes slowly. I am curious to see what @Randy Holmes-Farley thinks.

 

[AustinJT]

So I presume the only feed once a week comment related to the coral food only?

Yes. The once a week is Coral Food Fauna and Reef Energy AB+ from Red Sea.

I did mention above that my feeding is increase Nitrate 2.5ppm daily, that is Fish Food which is Frozen Brine Shrimp + Frozen Krill + Flake + Nori Seaweed.

I feed Frozen Brine Shrimp & Krill in morning. Flake in afternoon/evening. And then I just leave 3pcs of Nori but they never last longer than 10-15mins.

Light on from 10am to 9.30pm, running on AB+ program on 6pcs of Radion G6 30w Pro + 4pcs AI Glow 39".

Nitrate is increasing 2.5ppm on daily basis which cancelled out by 25ml of Vodka too.

But PO4 is undetectable with all Test Kits and Trident NP constantly reading Zero.

Currently, system is running on Calcium Reactor that covered 80-90% of Ca, KH & Mg. While the last 10-20% are covered by Neptune adding TLF Ca, KH & Mg to meet my target setting which is 8.3dKH, Ca 385, Mg 1385.

Currently, Ca & Mg is consumed additionally about 300-500ml per a month. While KH consuming 4-5L per month. The rate it consumed is based on Production of Calcium Reactor. I set my reactor to stop CO2 injection if Ca = 385 & KH = 8.2. So whenever Ca reached 385, CalRx would stop functioning which means tank daily consumption on KH will relied on TLF, that's why it consumed KH nearly 5L per a month.

And it runs on Red Sea Addictives ABCD program around 35ml per a day.

-Daily Fish Food (Brine100g+Krill50g+Flake2spoon+Nori3pcs)

-Weekly Coral Food (Reef Energy AB 250ml and Fauna Marin Food 30ml). Fauna I feed 10ml per each brand which is Ocean Plankton, Coral Plankton & Artic Plankton.

The reason I cut Coral Foods to once a week because I don't see any significant changes when I feed daily. I used to not feed Corals for ages and everything was fine. And after devout to feeding it for nearly 2yrs, nothing improve to a noticeable rate. So I dropped it just once a week as I see it as wasteful.

I think most of my corals & claim get nutrient from Brine shrimp & Krill. I would buy Brine 1kg + Krill 0.5kg, mix them together & clean them with RODI & then add Garlic Power & Vitamin C from BW, and pour them into Ice Cube tray, it' got me about 10 Trays. And I would feed 3 cube around 3x3cm(50g) every morning. I believe natural juice from Brine & Krill is what corals are feeding on because they do extend polyp when I feed in the morning.

Fauna 250ml is $20 per bottle and if feed daily, it's about half a bottle per a day. Reef Eng AB is 250-350ml per a day. A bottle of 500ml is $35 here. Daily Coral Feeding, would cost me $25 on Coral Food & Reef Energy alone per day. Since I don't see any different than algae growth, so I decide to just dose weekly instead.

Water Change + Electric + Chiller + Food + Supplement + Reagent + Test Kits, I think it cost me $1,500/mth already.

$1,000 just on Electric & Chiller alone because my house is hot, around 33-34c without Chiller when Lights are On, and around 29-31cm when Light are Off. So Chiller 2HP is running 24/7.

_________

Systems, runs on Neptune Controller, Seatorch CalRx, Seatorch Skimmer, 1 Biopellet Reactor, 2 of GFO, 1 Octopus Algae Reactor and Ozone 30mins per day around mid-night.

And an External De-nitrator, basically it's an Circulated Reactor filled with Matrix & De*nitrator media from SeaChem, water would filtered before going into reactor at 200L per hour. Actually, this was a Sulphur reactor but I can't get Sulphur anymore.... So I converted into Matrix Chamber.

 

[areefer01]

You could turn off the GFO for a day and see how the phosphate reacts.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that stopping the GFO entirely is the first thing I’d do.

 

[AustinJT]

Ok. GFO are off...

Let's see.

Thanks everyone.

 

[AustinJT]

Update: It's been 6 days now.

My PO4 is still Zero!

Next Step?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Update: It's been 6 days now.

My PO4 is still Zero!

Next Step?

Feed more or dose phosphate.

 

[areefer01]

Feed more or dose phosphate.

This is true but I believe they are saying that the automated testing tool, Trident NP, is giving them incorrect results after updating firmware, Apex OS, or both.

 

[bubbgee]

This is true but I believe they are saying that the automated testing tool, Trident NP, is giving them incorrect results after updating firmware, Apex OS, or both.

Likely needs re-calibration. This is why I have hanna on standby when it's reading zero on Trident NP as possibility of 0 within margin of error is likely.

 

[AustinJT]

Likely needs re-calibration. This is why I have hanna on standby when it's reading zero on Trident NP as possibility of 0 within margin of error is likely.

None of other test kits been able to read anything above 0. It's always remained undetectable.

I calibrated using my own water.

But even with Trident's own reagent. It's till constantly Zero.

For the past 6-8mnth since I used it... it only ever read once at 0.09ppm. The rest of entirety its usage, it's always been 0.

Granted, I used 130% of recommended value for Fauna Marin PowerPhos, due to never test PO4 before and see some green algae (but not hair or nuisance type), I adapted to dose 130% as PowerPhos recommend it's safely to Double Dosage if algae is persistent. So it's possible that my GFO always overworked.

Today is almost day 10 of turning off GFO and it's still zero.

I think I've feed enough because NO3 is rises constantly at 3-5ppm if I don't dose Carbon.

If I dose 25ml of Carbon Per Day, my Nitrate remained at 1.5 to 2.5ppm. If I don't dose, it rises up to 5-7ppm.