Dosing with Peroxide for Marine Velvet

Heather R

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Has anyone used the experimental hydrogen peroxide treatment to cure Marine Velvet or Ick? in their display tanks?

After researching treatment options,

We've decided to treat our 90 gallon display tank with peroxide. We plan to start with a low dose and increase the dosages over the next few days.

We've dosed the tank once so far. Hope this works! If it doesn't it will be an expensive experiment.

Please advise if you have used this method, your dosages and your outcome.

& wish us luck!

20190819_084044.jpg
 

HotRocks

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I’m highly skeptical. Never even heard of the idea of using peroxide for parasite.
It will kill the attached velvet trophonts 100% when a series of baths is performed.

Ich is embedded to deeply to be impacted. So it will not work for ich. I do know of a couple people who have eliminated velvet from their systems using solely h2o2 (Reportedly). Turning the lights off may be necessary as well because light can degrade hydrogen peroxide. I don't have personal experience with it, it looks more and more promising though.
 

mfollen

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Very interesting....

Is there a minimum hydrogen peroxide exposure time to kill attached trophonts?

And can you combine hydrogen peroxide with copper power in QT?
 

JasonK84

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It will kill the attached velvet trophonts 100% when a series of baths is performed.

Ich is embedded to deeply to be impacted. So it will not work for ich. I do know of a couple people who have eliminated velvet from their systems using solely h2o2 (Reportedly). Turning the lights off may be necessary as well because light can degrade hydrogen peroxide. I don't have personal experience with it, it looks more and more promising though.
Crazy!

What concentrations and for what length of time? I QT everything and don’t have parasites but it is interesting. Would this work faster than ramping up copper or work better when catching fish isn’t an option?
 
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It will kill the attached velvet trophonts 100% when a series of baths is performed.

Ich is embedded to deeply to be impacted. So it will not work for ich. I do know of a couple people who have eliminated velvet from their systems using solely h2o2 (Reportedly). Turning the lights off may be necessary as well because light can degrade hydrogen peroxide. I don't have personal experience with it, it looks more and more promising though.
I want more info. I find this super interesting.
 

HotRocks

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I want more info. I find this super interesting.
I should be very careful saying 100%. Used in a bath has been documented to work. In a reef tank there are other factors that could impact the concentration or h2o2. I don't personally Use h2o2, but I am going to start using baths and document results.

The dosage for a reef would be 1ml per 10g every 12 hours for 30 days straight. (this may be an option for someone with velvet in a large reef that cant remove all of the fish). I personally will still run copper post bath because of the fact that it will not eliminate ich. You could also do the h2o2 TTM Hybrid method instead of using copper. I don't like TTM because of all of the transfers and the additional tank sterilization it leaves a lot of room for error. For someone who doesn't want to use medication it may be a viable option.

 

bluprntguy

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The dosage for a reef would be 1ml per 10g every 12 hours for 30 days straight.
I think 75 ppm woks out to 10 ml per gallon not 1 ml per 10 gallons per this post from @Humblefish.

Is there anything that indicates the much lower concentration is effective?
 

HotRocks

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I think 75 ppm woks out to 10 ml per gallon not 1 ml per 10 gallons per this post from @Humblefish.

Is there anything that indicates the much lower concentration is effective?
I am not sure that the 75ppm concentration is "reef safe"

@EmdeReef has been using h202 on a system for a friend. What dosage are you using @EmdeReef?
Is it working?
 
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Heather R

Heather R

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Very interesting....

Is there a minimum hydrogen peroxide exposure time to kill attached trophonts?

And can you combine hydrogen peroxide with copper power in QT?
A couple sources of information I found interesting.


 
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Heather R

Heather R

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The article referenced here only covers baths. We are dosing the 90 gallon dt with 110# of rock fish & some hearty soft corals...

Our first dose was low 7.5 ml. Were adding slowly increasing the amouts little by little with each dose. Mutiple doses are required because the h202 breaks down rather quickly.
 

EmdeReef

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I am not sure that the 75ppm concentration is "reef safe"

@EmdeReef has been using h202 on a system for a friend. What dosage are you using @EmdeReef?
Is it working?
I feel that 75mg/l could be risky and moreover IMO very difficult to achieve in a reef tank without somehow testing. Would be difficult to calculate the quantity of h2o2 (potentially even continuous dosing?!) to achieve the "therapeutic:" concentration as H2O2 would likely quickly break down.

I don’t have many data points but a few sps frags I pruned and used in a prolonged h2o2 bath of 100mg/L died.

I've been dosing a very small dose initially of the 3% H2O2 (1-5ml per 10gal twice a day) and it did nothing for ich but worked great on cyano. No effect on clams, inverts, corals, etc.

I've since read a couple early studies looking into Peroxaid, an FDa approved 35% H2O2 fish medication. In freshwater and clean tanks, smaller doses eradicated certain parasites over a longer period of time (weeks). Now we're trying that...no guarantees and if dealing with velvet I wouldn't risk it.

Since Sunday we’re using 35% hydrogen peroxide and dosing 200ml per 1000gal per day, assuming it's possible to maintain any stable concentration for even short periods, would roughly translate to 20mg/L. FWIW I haven't seen any negative effects on fish and corals but it's too soon to tell if it has any effect on ich. We will try slowly ramping up.

Baths are effective and we know thanks to @Humblefish that fish tolerate even as high concentrations as 150mg/L.

You could try a DE filter, would have to get a pool size filter (hayward EC40 works and doesn't clog all the time) and run it continuously for weeks if not a month or longer. FWIW it did nothing on a very large tank in 3 weeks but it may be more effective on smaller tanks.
 

bluprntguy

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I feel that 75mg/l could be risky and moreover IMO very difficult to achieve in a reef tank without somehow testing. Would be difficult to calculate the quantity of h2o2 (potentially even continuous dosing?!) to achieve the "therapeutic:" concentration as H2O2 would likely quickly break down.

I don’t have many data points but a few sps frags I pruned and used in a prolonged h2o2 bath of 100mg/L died.

I've been dosing a very small dose initially of the 3% H2O2 (1-5ml per 10gal twice a day) and it did nothing for ich but worked great on cyano. No effect on clams, inverts, corals, etc.

I've since read a couple early studies looking into Peroxaid, an FDa approved 35% H2O2 fish medication. In freshwater and clean tanks, smaller doses eradicated certain parasites over a longer period of time (weeks). Now we're trying that...no guarantees and if dealing with velvet I wouldn't risk it.

Since Sunday we’re using 35% hydrogen peroxide and dosing 200ml per 1000gal per day, assuming it's possible to maintain any stable concentration for even short periods, would roughly translate to 20mg/L. FWIW I haven't seen any negative effects on fish and corals but it's too soon to tell if it has any effect on ich. We will try slowly ramping up.

Baths are effective and we know thanks to @Humblefish that fish tolerate even as high concentrations as 150mg/L.

You could try a DE filter, would have to get a pool size filter (hayward EC40 works and doesn't clog all the time) and run it continuously for weeks if not a month or longer. FWIW it did nothing on a very large tank in 3 weeks but it may be more effective on smaller tanks.
I've dosed peroxide in my nano in the past to try to cure bryopsis (prior to knowing about fluconazole) and agree that 5 ml/10 gallon and even up to 1 ml/gallon seemed pretty safe to corals, inverts, and fish. I came to the conclusion that peroxide was so safe, that I'd just pour it in until it looked to be about the right dose. I never had any losses that I could reasonably blame on peroxide dosing.

I guess the point I was getting at is the information that we have is that peroxide is effective against velvet at a dose of 10 ml/gallon. I wasn't suggesting that's a reef safe dose. However, It's not clear that anything below that will be effective at all - much like having copper at sub-therapeutic levels.

There may be some magic dose where peroxide kills velvet and doesn't kill corals and inverts, but I'd expect it's probably somewhere north of 1ml/gallon.
 

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I've dosed peroxide in my nano in the past to try to cure bryopsis (prior to knowing about fluconazole) and agree that 5 ml/10 gallon and even up to 1 ml/gallon seemed pretty safe to corals, inverts, and fish. I came to the conclusion that peroxide was so safe, that I'd just pour it in until it looked to be about the right dose. I never had any losses that I could reasonably blame on peroxide dosing.

I guess the point I was getting at is the information that we have is that peroxide is effective against velvet at a dose of 10 ml/gallon. I wasn't suggesting that's a reef safe dose. However, It's not clear that anything below that will be effective at all - much like having copper at sub-therapeutic levels.

There may be some magic dose where peroxide kills velvet and doesn't kill corals and inverts, but I'd expect it's probably somewhere north of 1ml/gallon.
Sure, you may be completely correct. I don't have the answer. We need a Hanna h2o2 checker @Hanna Instruments so we can do some research :)
 

EmdeReef

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I've dosed peroxide in my nano in the past to try to cure bryopsis (prior to knowing about fluconazole) and agree that 5 ml/10 gallon and even up to 1 ml/gallon seemed pretty safe to corals, inverts, and fish. I came to the conclusion that peroxide was so safe, that I'd just pour it in until it looked to be about the right dose. I never had any losses that I could reasonably blame on peroxide dosing.

I guess the point I was getting at is the information that we have is that peroxide is effective against velvet at a dose of 10 ml/gallon. I wasn't suggesting that's a reef safe dose. However, It's not clear that anything below that will be effective at all - much like having copper at sub-therapeutic levels.

There may be some magic dose where peroxide kills velvet and doesn't kill corals and inverts, but I'd expect it's probably somewhere north of 1ml/gallon.

Assume you mean 3%? I would agree that 3% 1ml/gal is likely safe just not sure what would be the benefit vs a lower dose for cyano...a chance of introducing impurities too.

The problem IMO is knowing how much to dose to maintain a stable concentration in a reef tank, even if it wouldn’t negatively impact corals.

There’s a couple of data points about hydrogen’s Half life in the ocean but not sure it applies in our tanks as even in the ocean there are variations depending on how close to the coast.

I almost feel like unless you could have a probe, it would be hard to make it effective...
 

Humblefish

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Just for clarification...

The 75-150 mg/L dosage range is meant to only be used as a 30 minute bath treatment, as outlined here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hydrogen-peroxide.640232/

In most cases, you can safely dose 3% Hydrogen Peroxide in a reef environment every 12 hours at a dosage range of 1ml per 8-10 gallons. This is already being done to combat cyano, dinos and various nuisance algae. The problem with dosing in a reef environment is light, gas exchange and other factors will decompose H2O2. Which will possibly drop it below "therapeutic" (for parasite purposes) before you can safely administer the next dosage.
 

HotRocks

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Just for clarification...

The 75-150 mg/L dosage range is meant to only be used as a 30 minute bath treatment, as outlined here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hydrogen-peroxide.640232/

In most cases, you can safely dose 3% Hydrogen Peroxide in a reef environment every 12 hours at a dosage range of 1ml per 8-10 gallons. This is already being done to combat cyano, dinos and various nuisance algae. The problem with dosing in a reef environment is light, gas exchange and other factors will decompose H2O2. Which will possibly drop it below "therapeutic" (for parasite purposes) before you can safely administer the next dosage.
Thank you @Humblefish! :)
 

EmdeReef

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Just for clarification...

The 75-150 mg/L dosage range is meant to only be used as a 30 minute bath treatment, as outlined here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hydrogen-peroxide.640232/

In most cases, you can safely dose 3% Hydrogen Peroxide in a reef environment every 12 hours at a dosage range of 1ml per 8-10 gallons. This is already being done to combat cyano, dinos and various nuisance algae. The problem with dosing in a reef environment is light, gas exchange and other factors will decompose H2O2. Which will possibly drop it below "therapeutic" (for parasite purposes) before you can safely administer the next dosage.

Good to see you back!
 
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