Dr. Reef sent me EXTRA fish, what should I do.

[EliMelly]

And he started this thread saying that he QT's two because maybe one dies. Then tells us how many die in shipping. I can't get behind this, I'm sorry.

He's literally telling us how many fish he kills to get one "healthy" fish to your door. And maybe it's the same with other vendors, but no one is charging "Dr. Reef" prices and telling us that they kill fish.


But my local fish store doesn't charge a 500% markup, and then tell me we need to give you extra fish because likely one or two may die.

Have you actually looked at his prices? They’re incredibly fair and in most cases comparable to non QT fish.

 

[EliMelly]

I doubt he loses more than 5% of fish or so in QT. The losses would occur during shipping as stated above. It is not in his interest to send a fish that’s not doing well. He would need to replace it and the shipping cost as well.

 

[Fish Fan]

Have you actually looked at his prices? They’re incredibly fair and in most cases comparable to non QT fish.

I absolutely have looked, and they are not even close to what I can buy a fish for, set up my own QT tank, have full control of the process, and not lose half my fish because of it.

I wouldn't have complained at all about Dr Reef, I have always heard good things here at R2R, but after reading this thread I am not okay with their practices.

 

[twentyleagues]

Agreed! But this "Dr. Reef" is charging HUGH money for supposedly healthy fish. It's disturbing to me how many fish are lost in his "process" and everyone thinks this is fantastic. I do not, sorry.

You must not have ever seen the retail side of this then. 25% loss is acceptable to most lfs. Not only acceptable its almost expected. So dr reef is no different at least they have a plan in effect to help back up loss should it happen to you.

 

[EliMelly]

I absolutely have looked, and they are not even close to what I can buy a fish for, set up my own QT tank, have full control of the process, and not lose half my fish because of it.

I wouldn't have complained at all about Dr Reef, I have always heard good things here at R2R, but after reading this thread I am not okay with their practices.

Many people who QT have a lot of their own loss, many people don’t have the time for it (myself), he fills a crucial need in this hobby better than anyone else.

Maybe you have better LfS but I’m here in Los Angeles and pricing is incredibly similar and selection can’t be beat.

 

[Fish Fan]

You must not have ever seen the retail side of this then. 25% loss is acceptable to most lfs. Not only acceptable its almost expected. So dr reef is no different at least they have a plan in effect to help back up loss should it happen to you.

I literally used to manage a fish store, in my younger days. I understand loss, but how this guy charges the prices he does, and freely admits to these loses (greater than 25% by his own words here in this thread) I will never understand.

 

[EliMelly]

I literally used to manage a fish store, in my younger days. I understand loss, but how this guy charges the prices he does, and freely admits to these loses (greater than 25% by his own words here in this thread) I will never understand.

He said he loses certain types of fish during shipping I really think you’re not understanding his comment. I’ll let @Dr. Reef clarify himself as only he can talk about his numbers.

 

[Fish Fan]

Many people who QT have a lot of their own loss, many people don’t have the time for it (myself), he fills a crucial need in this hobby better than anyone else.

I give you that, that was always my understanding. But I can't just sit by and hear about fish losses like this, and everyone here seems to think this is okay, and say nothing.

He said he loses certain types of fish during shipping I really think you’re not understanding his comment. I’ll let @Dr. Reef clarify himself as only he can talk about his numbers.

Hi Everyone
When you place an order for example for 1 yellow coris, we reserve 2 in your name out of our inventory. If 1 doesnt survive the qt process we have a backup and you dont lose time waiting for a 2nd one to come and wait another 30 days.

We do ship extra fish on some species that do not ship well.

Sounds very much like he's losing them on both sides of his process.

 

[Vested]

I literally used to manage a fish store, in my younger days. I understand loss, but how this guy charges the prices he does, and freely admits to these loses (greater than 25% by his own words here in this thread) I will never understand.

You clearly have no idea what your talking about

 

[Sleeping Giant]

awesome idea

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

Our loses after all said and done is 8.76% for the year. In last 5 years our losses has never reached above 10%.
If you think you gonna subject fish to poison for 14 days and then poison it again with other harsh medicines for another 14 days and then expect it to be healthy.... and not die... well we must not live on same planet then.

 

[EliMelly]

I give you that, that was always my understanding. But I can't just sit by and hear about fish losses like this, and everyone here seems to think this is okay, and say nothing.






Sounds very much like he's losing them on both sides of his process.

It’s kind of sad that this is what you got from those comments and decided to tarnish the reputation of one the best vendors we have.

Example of what he meant. I ordered a skeletor eel from him. He bought two to put through QT. He shipped one to me and it died seven days in for whatever reason. Since he bought two to put through QT he was able to replace it for me fairly quickly.

 

[Fish Fan]

It’s kind of sad that this is what you got from those comments and decided to tarnish the reputation of one the best vendors we have.

Example of what he meant. I ordered a skeletor eel from him. He bought two to put through QT. He shipped one to me and it died seven days in for whatever reason. Since he bought two to put through QT he was able to replace it for me fairly quickly.

Nobody is tarnishing anything. He freely came on here and told of us his process, I am quoting numbers right from his original post, and they don’t make me happy at all. I’m entitled to my opinion here, as you are of yours.

Our loses after all said and done is 8.76% for the year. In last 5 years our losses has never reached above 10%.
If you think you gonna subject fish to poison for 14 days and then poison it again with other harsh medicines for another 14 days and then expect it to be healthy.... and not die... well we must not live on same planet then.

Then why do you ship extra fish? That’s the whole point of your thread. I, and at least some others here, would not appreciate extra fish. If the fish are that sensitive, maybe we shouldn’t be shipping them?

 

[EliMelly]

Nobody is tarnishing anything. He freely came on here and told of us his process, I am quoting numbers right from his original post, and they don’t make me happy at all. I’m entitled to my opinion here, as you are of yours.


Then why do you ship extra fish? That’s the whole point of your thread. I, and at least some others here, would not appreciate extra fish. If the fish are that sensitive, maybe we shouldn’t be shipping them?

The extra fish are for sensitive shippers. As he stated above due to feedback he will make it an option for clients to choose if they want an extra one shipped. That’s up to the client to decide whether to buy it or not. Sensitive fish are clearly labeled on his site with a disclaimer. He’s running a business which I’m sure he loves animals but it’s not an animal safe haven foundation.

 

[Fish Fan]

The extra fish are for sensitive shippers. As he stated above due to feedback he will make it an option for clients to choose if they want an extra one shipped. That’s up to the client to decide whether to buy it or not. Sensitive fish are clearly labeled on his site with a disclaimer. He’s running a business which I’m sure he loves animals but it’s not an animal safe haven foundation.

I agree, and I understand. I have never been interested in Dr. Reef because I QT my fish and everything else I get. I did not have a real opinion either way until I read this post. I’ve explained my point of view, I’ve quoted numbers directly from Dr. Reef post here, and I’m sorry, but I don’t like what I’m hearing. I may well be in the minority here, but I’m not the only one. If you want to spend your money with Dr. Reef, go for it! The best part about this hobby is we can each run our tanks how we see fit. I will personally steer clear of this “Dr.” after reading this, that’s my opinion.

 

[BeanAnimal]

And he started this thread saying that he QT's two because maybe one dies. Then tells us how many die in shipping. I can't get behind this, I'm sorry.

He's literally telling us how many fish he kills to get one "healthy" fish to your door. And maybe it's the same with other vendors, but no one is charging "Dr. Reef" prices and telling us that they kill fish.


But my local fish store doesn't charge a 500% markup, and then tells me we need to give you extra fish because likely one or two may die.

He is being honest about the mortality rate of sensitive fish. Shipping (any fish) is brutal.

You are taking a fish that has been plucked from the ocean, more than likely captured with cyanide, percussion or electric shock…

Tossed in a live well, where many die during the trip…

Netted and dumped into a dirty holding tank where more perish…

Netted again and bagged and boxed for shipment…

Rough handling and van ride….

Loading dock…

Airplanes and rough handling….

Loading dock….

Local carrier or pickup at airport…

Dumped again and QT in a bare tank…

Netted again bagged and boxed…

Van ride to local hub….

Loading docks and another rough airplane trip….

Local carrier and rough handling….

Your doorstep….

Your tank and floating and dumping and maybe more bare QT or tiny acclimation box…

Dark, light, living in their own waste, often with a dead fish or more, being shaken and handled rough, exposed to giant temp swings, stress and lack of food, compromised immune systems, a total nightmare any way you slice it.

It is insanely amazing that ANY of them make it.

Your “LFS” deals with the same or higher DOA rate and provides far less care than you do, you just don’t see it. They dump piles of fish in the garbage daily, it is just part of the process.

 

[SpyC]

I have had more DOA fish from Dr Reef than any other vendor. QT takes a lot out of a fish and maybe after QT, the fish need to be held for a twoish weeks to help get them back into tip top shape prior to shipping.

He does what I dont have the space for, but this has also cost a lot of fish lives.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

Nobody is tarnishing anything. He freely came on here and told of us his process, I am quoting numbers right from his original post, and they don’t make me happy at all. I’m entitled to my opinion here, as you are of yours.


Then why do you ship extra fish? That’s the whole point of your thread. I, and at least some others here, would not appreciate extra fish. If the fish are that sensitive, maybe we shouldn’t be shipping them?

I'll continue to be transparent and informative to people that wanna know the reasoning behind it. We are not here to make everyone agree or expect everyone be understanding of our process but for the ones that do like to know the information is here available openly without hiding anything.
If you don't agree with our practices or business don't buy.

I don't think anywhere I forced anyone to come buy from us.

I will continue to qt and sell fish because qted livestock doesn't wipe out someone's entire tank.
I qm,sure people that has invested thousands of dollars in their tank and then lost their entire livestock can easily relate to me.
And from as many emails we get about wiped out tanks and dead fish, my 8.76% is nothing compared to that.
Have you ever heard of the phrase " you got to lose some to win some"

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I imagine if one starts a multi page rant about receiving an unsolicited email from a sponsor/vendor, they for sure should about receiving an extra fish.

 

[djkms]

I have had more DOA fish from Dr Reef than any other vendor. QT takes a lot out of a fish and maybe after QT, the fish need to be held for a twoish weeks to help get them back into tip top shape prior to shipping.

He does what I dont have the space for, but this has also cost a lot of fish lives.

You do know he will hold fish after the initial quarantine - either 60 or 90 days IIRC. Next time you order from him just ask him to hold them another couple weeks.

This is literally one of the best vendors I have ever seen in the hobby (and I have been in it for just over 30 years). He is active on the forums, takes suggestions, adjusts his business practices quickly to adjust to customer needs, always makes orders right if there are issues, and the list goes on and on.

If you don't like how he conducts business that's your prerogative but its a simple fact of life that you cant please everyone all the time.

Mike - I worked for a aquarium maintenance company back in the day and we ordered our fish from Quality Marine. Not sure today but back then they were the best in the business. Our mortality rate was about 15% so you being under 10% is fantastic, keep up the good work.