Dynoflagellates and diatoms...

[Anxur]

I would like to share this document with you:

"Growth, Feeding and Ecological Roles of the Mixotrophic and Heterotrophic Dinoflagellates in Marine Planktonic Food Webs" compiled by OSJ (Ocean Science Journal)

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12601-010-0007-2

The study demonstrates how some dinoflagellates examined feed on:
HB: Heterotrophic bacteria, CB: Cyanobacteria, HP: Haptophyte, CR: Cryptophyte, Ac: Amphidinium carterae, DA: a small diatom, Ha: Heterosigma akashiwo, Pm: Prorocentrum minimum, Ht: Heterocapsa triquetra, Cp: Cochlodinium polykrikoides, Pc: P. micans, At: Alexandrium tamarense, As: Akashiwo sanguinea, Lp: Lingulodinium polyedrum, Ce: Ceratium spp., HD: Heterotrophic dinoflagellates, CL: (Ciliates) photo 1

Feeding occurrence by each mixotrophic dinoflagellate predator on diverse prey items which were identified in the taxonomic
level listed below
((+) : A dinoflagellate predator was observed to feed on prey cells, (--): the dinoflagellate predator was observed not to feed on
prey cells, No (+) or (--) means not tested.

This explains why, exhausted post membrane resins of the osmosis system, let silicates and other elements pass through which feed diatoms and consequently some types of dinoflagellates. Once the resins are replaced, the problem, albeit slowly, goes away. With a value in the Silicate range, diatoms and dino coexist forcibly without either one prevailing over the other. If, however, the Silicate level increases, the diatoms increase and consequently the predation of the diatoms by the Dinoflagellates that feed on them increases.

Remember: A thousand types of diatoms, a thousand types of dinoflagellates... Interesting, as the attached image shows, that, for example: Gyrodinium Dominans or Gyrodinium Spiralis, one eats diatoms, the other does not... So it's all very subjective..

 

[Anxur]

@vetteguy53081 @taricha

 

[vetteguy53081]

I would like to share this document with you:

"Growth, Feeding and Ecological Roles of the Mixotrophic and Heterotrophic Dinoflagellates in Marine Planktonic Food Webs" compiled by OSJ (Ocean Science Journal)

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12601-010-0007-2

The study demonstrates how some dinoflagellates examined feed on:
HB: Heterotrophic bacteria, CB: Cyanobacteria, HP: Haptophyte, CR: Cryptophyte, Ac: Amphidinium carterae, DA: a small diatom, Ha: Heterosigma akashiwo, Pm: Prorocentrum minimum, Ht: Heterocapsa triquetra, Cp: Cochlodinium polykrikoides, Pc: P. micans, At: Alexandrium tamarense, As: Akashiwo sanguinea, Lp: Lingulodinium polyedrum, Ce: Ceratium spp., HD: Heterotrophic dinoflagellates, CL: (Ciliates) photo 1

Feeding occurrence by each mixotrophic dinoflagellate predator on diverse prey items which were identified in the taxonomic
level listed below
((+) : A dinoflagellate predator was observed to feed on prey cells, (--): the dinoflagellate predator was observed not to feed on
prey cells, No (+) or (--) means not tested.

This explains why, exhausted post membrane resins of the osmosis system, let silicates and other elements pass through which feed diatoms and consequently some types of dinoflagellates. Once the resins are replaced, the problem, albeit slowly, goes away. With a value in the Silicate range, diatoms and dino coexist forcibly without either one prevailing over the other. If, however, the Silicate level increases, the diatoms increase and consequently the predation of the diatoms by the Dinoflagellates that feed on them increases.

Remember: A thousand types of diatoms, a thousand types of dinoflagellates... Interesting, as the attached image shows, that, for example: Gyrodinium Dominans or Gyrodinium Spiralis, one eats diatoms, the other does not... So it's all very subjective..

I understand their life cycle and as mentioned, they feed on a variety of substance and consume elements, phos, etc. This is the reason for added bacteria to compete with the bad bacteria.

 

[CHSUB]

Hobbyist, imo, would be much better off following actual science vs “hobby observation” when maintaining a reef tank. Some examples of false “hobby observation”: 0 nutrients = dinos, garlic cures ich, high magnesium needed for torch corals, etc…Reef aquariums are changing regardless of what we put in them, just because adding nutrients appears to make Dinos go away does not mean it’s the nutrients that made them go away.

 

[Anxur]

I understand their life cycle and as mentioned, they feed on a variety of substance and consume elements, phos, etc. This is the reason for added bacteria to compete with the bad bacteria.

What I wanted to show with the article is that dinoflagellates also eat diatoms..

Often, when osmosis is not perfect, and silicates and other things pass through (not readable and measurable by TDS and Microsiemens meters) the diatoms increase. By increasing the diatoms, the dinoflagellates that feed on them increase...

So.. Each case is subjective..

Each dinoflagellate must be treated individually...

With the dinoflagellate ostreopsis if you dose silicate you make a bomb explode in the aquarium..(example)

 

[Anxur]

Hobbyist, imo, would be much better off following actual science vs “hobby observation” when maintaining a reef tank. Some examples of false “hobby observation”: 0 nutrients = dinos, garlic cures ich, high magnesium needed for torch corals, etc…Reef aquariums are changing regardless of what we put in them, just because adding nutrients appears to make Dinos go away does not mean it’s the nutrients that made them go away.

True.. This is a hobby that now goes on with dogmas passed down incorrectly year after year.. Without scientific reasons..

For example..

Will an aquarium infested with dinoflagellates ever give readable results of Nitrate and phosphate?.... No!

And then they tell you that the fault is of low or non-existent nutrients, instead of telling you that dinoflagellates, cyanobacteria or filamentous bacteria are eating, devouring or in any case taking a huge part of the nutrients from the tank..

The tests measure the "remainder" net of consumption...

If I measure 0.01 Po4 it does not mean that the water has 0.01.. It means that 0.01 REMAINS after ALL the inhabitants of the aquarium GOOD and BAD have consumed their daily ration..

Back to the thread..

As long as the elements remain in the right range (in this case Silicate) Diatoms and dinoflagellates (which feed on diatoms) live in our aquarium without either of them prevailing over the other... If, due to our mistake (osmosis with resins) or due to voluntary dosing of Silicate, the value of Silicate increases, consequently the number of diatoms and the number of dinoflagellates that will be visible to our eyes.

 

[Anxur]

Hobbyist, imo, would be much better off following actual science vs “hobby observation” when maintaining a reef tank. Some examples of false “hobby observation”: 0 nutrients = dinos, garlic cures ich, high magnesium needed for torch corals, etc…Reef aquariums are changing regardless of what we put in them, just because adding nutrients appears to make Dinos go away does not mean it’s the nutrients that made them go away.

Photo number 2 instead shows the prey on the left, and the typology of dinoflagellates that feed on them on the right. The diatoms in the nomenclature on the left are called Bacillariophytes. As you can see in the attached photo, both Mixotrophic and Heterotrophic dinoflagellates feed on them.

 

[CHSUB]

Photo number 2 instead shows the prey on the left, and the typology of dinoflagellates that feed on them on the right. The diatoms in the nomenclature on the left are called Bacillariophytes. As you can see in the attached photo, both Mixotrophic and Heterotrophic dinoflagellates feed on them.

Yes I read the entire article. It is good to see some actual evidence about dinoflagellates and their prey. I never believed the recent trend that 0 nutrients caused anything bad except pale, weak corals. The idea that an algae blooms because of a lack of nutrients is preposterous, imo. Furthermore hobby test kits still don’t provide the resolution needed to determine if a nutrient deficiency exists. Most, if not all, the advice about dinoflagellate in the reef aquarium is based on hobby observations and imo leads many to bad outcomes. Thanks for posting!

 

[Anxur]

Yes I read the entire article. It is good to see some actual evidence about dinoflagellates and their prey. I never believed the recent trend that 0 nutrients caused anything bad except pale, weak corals. The idea that an algae blooms because of a lack of nutrients is preposterous, imo. Furthermore hobby test kits still don’t provide the resolution needed to determine if a nutrient deficiency exists. Most, if not all, the advice about dinoflagellate in the reef aquarium is based on hobby observations and imo leads many to bad outcomes. Thanks for posting!

Thanks for reading. Here in Italy on our reference forums, out of 10 cases of dinoflagellates, 8-9 cases are related and caused by the osmosis water for not having replaced the post-membrane resins in time. Silicates and other things pass (despite 000 microsiemens) and the diatoms celebrate... and then the dinos that feed on them celebrate in turn...

Just enough time to change the post-membrane resins, top up with pure osmosis again, a few changes of water with pure water and salt and everything is resolved.

 

[Rodrigo Portes]

If i have 000 TDS and 0 silicate in a Colombo test, that means that i dont fit in that category. Right?