Euphillia not doing well! Help please

vetteguy53081

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So you think my light intensity and photoperiod are too low? What about the 0 PO4?
These issues started long before I decreased my lights by the way. Also, I am not seeing any zoas reaching for the light, they are all flat and opened up except that one colony that closed with GSP 2 days ago.
I run near zero PO4
Here are Some of my euphyllia

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vetteguy53081

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It is stressed and not from po4 or NO3.
I still suspect flow and just realized you have this directly in sandbed
Sand will irritate it like no tomorrow. Elevate it at least2-3” off sand. It will receive more light and flow also.
Read what I mentioned much earlier regarding location And flow
 
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maleks.reef

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It is stressed and not from po4 or NO3.
I still suspect flow and just realized you have this directly in sandbed
Sand will irritate it like no tomorrow. Elevate it at least2-3” off sand. It will receive more light and flow also.
Read what I mentioned much earlier regarding location And flow
It has always been 2 inches off the sand. It has always received good lighting and flow, this is proven by the fact that the other torch, which is very close to it, is doing well. I only put it in the sand because that's a shaded area. I moved it earlier today so this damage isn't from sand irritation. I will move it back to its original spot.
 

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i cant even count how many threads are on here with euphyllia closing up bailing out or slowly fading away with the op stating the po4 is zero. & it's always your light or flow that's wrong even though the coral has been fine under the same light & flow for months. at some point it seems the makers of po4 reduction products have convinced a lot of reefers that po4 is the devil & must be stripped from our tanks. this is simply not accurate. i run mine in the 0.10-0.12 range & this is where everything looks the best there are countless lps tanks running po4 in the 0.06-0.08 & some reefers are successful at riding that razer edge of low almost zero range because they have a ton of fish & heavy import/export but not all tanks run like that. for those that only have a few fish heavy import is not happening & a reasonable level of nutrients needs to be maintained. here are a few pics of mine running at 0.12 po4

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maleks.reef

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i cant even count how many threads are on here with euphyllia closing up bailing out or slowly fading away with the op stating the po4 is zero. & it's always your light or flow that's wrong even though the coral has been fine under the same light & flow for months. at some point it seems the makers of po4 reduction products have convinced a lot of reefers that po4 is the devil & must be stripped from our tanks. this is simply not accurate. i run mine in the 0.10-0.12 range & this is where everything looks the best there are countless lps tanks running po4 in the 0.06-0.08 & some reefers are successful at riding that razer edge of low almost zero range because they have a ton of fish & heavy import/export but not all tanks run like that. for those that only have a few fish heavy import is not happening & a reasonable level of nutrients needs to be maintained. here are a few pics of mine running at 0.12 po4

I never intentionally decreased my po4. I always thought im overfeeding anyway since I don't shy away with the flakes. I added 1/2 a tsp of reef roids today. I will continue to add 1/4 tsp of reef roids every other day until it reaches 0.05-0.1 ppm. I also turned off my fuge light and removed the collection cup from my HOB skimmer so now the skimmer is there for oxygenation only.
Regarding light and flow, what do you think is the problem? Too much light and flow or too little?
 

fuelman

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I never intentionally decreased my po4. I always thought im overfeeding anyway since I don't shy away with the flakes. I added 1/2 a tsp of reef roids today. I will continue to add 1/4 tsp of reef roids every other day until it reaches 0.05-0.1 ppm. I also turned off my fuge light and removed the collection cup from my HOB skimmer so now the skimmer is there for oxygenation only.
Regarding light and flow, what do you think is the problem? Too much light and flow or too little?
just keep a close watch on it with doing all of that at once your level could spike up on you pretty fast. you might want to leave the fuge light on & just reduce the light period for now, if after a while it looks like you cant keep your nutrients up & you wont need the fuge then shut it off at that point. light & flow are a bit different for each reef tank depending on the coral you keep. your euphyllia should be swaying back & forth but not getting folded over with flow. light really requires a par meter to be sure if it's too much, not enough, or just right. I'm not sure on settings for your light, i have never used that one & don't know anyone that has one. so it would be hard to guess at the best intensity
 
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maleks.reef

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just keep a close watch on it with doing all of that at once your level could spike up on you pretty fast. you might want to leave the fuge light on & just reduce the light period for now, if after a while it looks like you cant keep your nutrients up & you wont need the fuge then shut it off at that point. light & flow are a bit different for each reef tank depending on the coral you keep. your euphyllia should be swaying back & forth but not getting folded over with flow. light really requires a par meter to be sure if it's too much, not enough, or just right. I'm not sure on settings for your light, i have never used that one & don't know anyone that has one. so it would be hard to guess at the best intensity
Im afraid the torch wont make it that far. It has been getting progressively worse. Should I place it higher than its original spot (it did well in that spot f or 3.5 months) or should I put it in a low flow low light area? Until PO4 is up again, what can I do to help? Should I do a 10% water change?
 

fuelman

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Im afraid the torch wont make it that far. It has been getting progressively worse. Should I place it higher than its original spot (it did well in that spot f or 3.5 months) or should I put it in a low flow low light area? Until PO4 is up again, what can I do to help? Should I do a 10% water change?
if it's starting to bail out at this point i would put it in a low flow area to be as gentle on it as possible & hope for the best & just let it set there without moving it anymore till it heals. usually when they start to bail out they don't make it, but they can recover sometimes.
 
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maleks.reef

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if it's starting to bail out at this point i would put it in a low flow area to be as gentle on it as possible & hope for the best & just let it set there without moving it anymore till it heals. usually when they start to bail out they don't make it, but they can recover sometimes.
Just went to move it and as soon as I moved It all of the polyps just detached from the skeleton.. it is dead. I want to know what caused this so it doesn't happen again..
 

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Your guess is as good as any... I have numerous torches and hammers and have had my fair share of failures along the way.
As others have said, it's more often than not flow and/or lighting. Moving a torch around is not good either. They don't appreciate being handled and moving them around stresses them more.
Sometimes it's a spike in po4 or alk or otherwise that stresses them and then we think we can help by moving them, dipping them and most often only make things worse.
In the end, it's always our fault some how, and I've come to appreciate the fact that our job is to provide them the best ecosystem we can, with stable parameters, good lighting, and adequate flow and let them be.
No one runs around and moves torches (or any coral for that matter) in reefs... they grow in the same spot for years. We should do our best to follow what nature has perfected...
 

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Just went to move it and as soon as I moved It all of the polyps just detached from the skeleton.. it is dead. I want to know what caused this so it doesn't happen again..
ahh that sucks. i would do a water change & try to keep up on them, two month's is a long time between water changes. try to get your parameters in line your nitrate & alk look fine but po4 needs to come up. as said by a bunch of others try to set a flow that's not yanking your coral around & if you can rent or borrow a par meter you could then be sure on your light intensity. having a regular water change schedule is a good thing.
 

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Just to chime in... are we sure the test kit can test below 0? Some test kits can’t test that low and most of the time we want that range to be 0.10-0.12 so unless we have a test kit that can test below 0 in the hundredths then the kit will show 0. I had this mistake with my first Hannah po4 tester... I didn’t get the “ultra low range” so it showed “0”. After getting the ULR I can now get the exact readings. The fact that OP has indicated brown algae and feeding roids... the po4 could essentially be 0.01 all the way to 0.99 and the kit would still say 0. Which with how much he’s feeding I doubt... So are we sure the test kit can test that low range?

Lastly, if you haven’t done a water change in 2 months, could be an issue for your LPS... I’m thinking based on everything I’ve read in this thread that trace elements are stripped. OP are you supplementing the water with trace elements? If not, I bet if you did a wc, you’d see some improvements.
 
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maleks.reef

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Just to chime in... are we sure the test kit can test below 0? Some test kits can’t test that low and most of the time we want that range to be 0.10-0.12 so unless we have a test kit that can test below 0 in the hundredths then the kit will show 0. I had this mistake with my first Hannah po4 tester... I didn’t get the “ultra low range” so it showed “0”. After getting the ULR I can now get the exact readings. The fact that OP has indicated brown algae and feeding roids... the po4 could essentially be 0.01 all the way to 0.99 and the kit would still say 0. Which with how much he’s feeding I doubt... So are we sure the test kit can test that low range?

Lastly, if you haven’t done a water change in 2 months, could be an issue for your LPS... I’m thinking based on everything I’ve read in this thread that trace elements are stripped. OP are you supplementing the water with trace elements? If not, I bet if you did a wc, you’d see some improvements.
Im using the salifert test kit for PO4 and the kit itself can read as low as 0.03. The fact that my PO4 is 0 while my nitrates are like 7ppm is boggling to me.
And no I do not dose anything. I was thinking the same thing, maybe my trace elements have faded away. That being said, if my trace elements faded away, my alk should have been a bit lower as well, right? According to Red Sea, my alk should be at 8 dKh if my salinity is at 35. My alk is all the way up to 8.6! How could that be possible?
The torch died overnight and as of right now my gsp, hammer and 1 zoa colony are all closed up.. I am doing a 10% water change as we speak right now. Thank you for taking the time to try to help.
 

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Alk at 8.6 isn’t really a problem. Some run dkh at 11. I am trying to keep mine at 8.5 or 9. Minor trace elements aren’t necessarily related to your dkh, as calcium carbonate is just 1 element. There’s boron, iodine, and a total of 31 other trace elements that are important too.

Thanks for the update on your test kit. Do you have any macro algae or a Fuge running perhaps that would be soaking up the po4?

Since you aren’t getting a reading of at least .03 then I’d suggest you try and grab Brightwell aquatics Neophos ($6,99 at BRS). Stuff works great. So either it’s truly 0 which then You’re corals are starving (even though you’re feeding).

Only other thing I could suspect would be lighting and spectrum/par... but I’m leaning more towards the trace elements and low phosphate.

 
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maleks.reef

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Alk at 8.6 isn’t really a problem. Some run dkh at 11. I am trying to keep mine at 8.5 or 9. Minor trace elements aren’t necessarily related to your dkh, as calcium carbonate is just 1 element. There’s boron, iodine, and a total of 31 other trace elements that are important too.

Thanks for the update on your test kit. Do you have any macro algae or a Fuge running perhaps that would be soaking up the po4?

Since you aren’t getting a reading of at least .03 then I’d suggest you try and grab Brightwell aquatics Neophos ($6,99 at BRS). Stuff works great. So either it’s truly 0 which then You’re corals are starving (even though you’re feeding).

Only other thing I could suspect would be lighting and spectrum/par... but I’m leaning more towards the trace elements and low phosphate.

I do have a fuge and a HOB skimmer. Both of which have been off since yesterday and will remain off until I detect some PO4. Regarding the trace elements thing, hopefully after this WC I can see some improvements. If I do see improvements, then you are correct and it is a trace element issue.
 

dmy535

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What didn’t you have growing in the Fuge? That is probably why we are getting the 0!
 

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