Everything Dead within an Hour

[OrionN]

Unless the air feeding the needle wheel from outside the lid, the lid will prevent air exchange and thus the needle wheel skimmer won't help with oxygenation.
I think you hit it right on. O2 issue if the air intake for the skimmer is from inside the lid.

 

[00W]

I dont even have an Ammonia test kit anymore, but the inverts and corals are happy so im ruling out ammonia based on that. Literally everything coralwise is open and happy with dead fish floating around them

No chemicals or fumes or anything.

So sorry my friend.
Hate to hear this stuff.
Leaving the cheato light on 24/7 would make more oxygen, not less.
Strange.

 

[mch1984]

Ok. I have so much to say on this and not enough time and hard to write the emotion that goes into it. I had this happen, and have first hand experience...

I had gotten some Anthias and a powder blue tang. Both were eating great and doing great for 2-3 months.

Then suddenly, I found a fish jumped out. Then two fish dead a week later for no reason in the rocks. Then about 5-7 days later my Banghai cardinals were in various states of popeye and died off one by one.

My Powder blue then developed welts all over its body and died another week later. I was testing everything and not overreacting. I did a 30 % water change, monitored basics like salinity, testing with multiple calibrated refractometers. I tested my chemistry. I couldn't figure it out.

3 weeks in I had lost 15 fish all in different ways (350 gallon display). I had never been shocked, I work in my 350 too much an hour or two every week cleaning the glass, doing maintenance on powerheads, you name it. There's always something to do. . . I never felt a shock.

I was at my wits end. I talked to the local fish store owner (salt water store) and asked him what the heck why is everything dying.

His first question was "How are your corals fairing?" I said, you know, now that you ask, I've noticed several corals that were not growing at all now having visible growth in the last month. Several of them noticeably larger. I said that's the confusing part, if it was something in the water, like metal, copper, or other things that are bad for both inverts and fish, wouldn't my snails and corals be dying... Which, yes, the answer usually is yes. Salinity, snails, anemones (of which none of mine were showing any signs of stress.)

He said, have you checked for stray voltage? I said, no, but why would I. My corals would be dying. . . "He said, nope, google electrified cages to rebuild a reef in the 1980s."

I said, "HUH?"

There are many articles out there now on google, showing how we're advancing the use of electricity to help corals grow skeletons faster and easier. However, stray voltage can stress fish significantly.

I told the fish store owner he's crazy. I stick my hands in the tank all the time. I don't feel any shocks. " He gave me a strange look, like how dumb are you?

"Your body needs to be thoroughly grounded in order to feel it."

I don't recommend this, because what I did next could have killed me. But, I stuck my hand in the sump and placed my other hand on something I assumed would be grounded, the metal sides of my furnace / air handler. I think my hair stood up on end. I couldn't believe it.

I still thought maybe, like you, it was a salt sting.. Chemical burn type feeling. But my hair on my neck stood up. My hand vibrated that was in the sump. The hand touching the furnace stung. Almost hurt.

I said o.k. maybe there's truth to this. I used my apex to shut pumps off one at a time. I had a couple corded powerheads, skimmer pump, and two 300 watt heaters that were submerged. So, it would be easy to turn each off one at a time to find the culprit. Sticking my hand in each time to verify if the electricity was gone..

I discovered one of my two 300 watt heaters was leaking electricity. The vibrating stopped. Just to confirm I turned the heater back on and retested and sure enough the sting and electrical charge was there again. I then shut it off and watched my last few remaining fish and my black long nose tang whom had stopped swimming the full length of the tank for some time, now was swimming gleefully the full 6 feet of the tank. I went and turned the heater back on and observed the tank. It seriously went to swimming in small concentric circles.

I turned the heater off. Pulled it out. purchased two new Finnex heaters from the LFS. threw both of the old ones out.

I was able to save one fish. My Black long nose tang. That was going on 3 years ago. It took 4-5 weeks to find the problem. I lost in total 16-17 fish from that incident. Hundreds of dollars down the drain.

Having getting that all in check, I didn't trust there weren't secondary issues like other bacteria, disease, viruses, parasites that the electricity fostered in the fish. I left the tank for 4 -5 months with just the black tang in it. He was lonely in a 350. But, I just was so disgusted with it all I couldn't bring myself to add more fish.

Now, three years later, same tank, same everything except the 2-3 year old heaters now. I have 25 new fish. Many of them going on 2 years old now and healthy. My black long nose tang is going on 7-8 years old.

I can't express how defeated you must feel. I almost gave up. If it wasn't in my wall in the basement, I might have given up.. But, I let it sit, neglected it a few months then restarted it slowly adding a few fish every 2-3 months. And they have all thrived since then.

Electricity does kill fish, it affects their brains, their immune systems, and their ability survive. It however, will help corals to put down new skeletons, causing them to look healthier and grow faster.

I'm very sorry!

found this in another thread

 

[mch1984]

Looks at pico tanks, they have tight lids to prevent evaporation and in that tiny amount of water you don't see oxygen issues. Bio cubes have been around a long time, I don't think that is the issue.

 

[IceNein]

Stray voltage will not affect fish.
They are not grounded.
You can stick your hands in the tank and now you are grounded and can feel if there is enough voltage to feel.

As someone who was a RADAR tech in the Navy, it sure does feel like a lot of people really don't know what they're talking about when they talk about stray voltages.

I agree that "stray voltages" do not work the way people imagine they would work. Birds often sit on 10,000 stray volts and are completely fine.

 

[Nano_Tuners]

found this in another thread

Interesting, ill get the meter and check it when it arrives

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

Ok, actually, some sort of chemical would be far more likely...some kind of cleaner, air freshener spray, etc. Either that or some sort of equipment malfunction. Its true as far as I know that stray voltage wpuld be harmless. I think oxygen depletion is even less likely to go unnoticed completely and then kill everything within an hour though.

 

[Nano_Tuners]

Ok, actually, some sort of chemical would be far more likely...some kind of cleaner, air freshener spray, etc. Either that or some sort of equipment malfunction. Its true as far as I know that stray voltage wpuld be harmless. I think oxygen depletion is even less likely to go unnoticed completely and then kill everything within an hour though.

yeah youd think if the oxygen levels were lower, they would be lethargic or something at the bottom of the tank before they died

 

[OrionN]

It is not the volume of the water, but the density of life. Everything needs O2 to live. The smaller the volume (shallower) thus more surface to volume ratio thus less problem. However, if the lid is all block off then there is no air exchange.
It is the density of life, the biomass, that cause problem. If the tank is full of coral and live rock and sand, then the O2 demand is a lot and at night it will be problem when the light is out and all living thing consume O2 instead of making them.

 

[Nano_Tuners]

i mean if this tank has almost zero evaporation, it would seem like the gas exchange with fresh oxygen is very low as well

and i noticed the biocube back wall goes up almost all the way to the lid, almost sealing off the display tank from the rear chambers (where the two small holes for cords open to outside air)

the thing that keeps me from thinking that was 100% the source of the problem is that there have been thousands of people with lidded biocubes and much more livestock who havent reported this issue

 

[Nano_Tuners]

Any reason to think a sudden ammonia spike that was toxic enough to kill fish that fast wouldnt affect corals/inverts?

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

It is not the volume of the water, but the density of life. Everything needs O2 to live. The smaller the volume (shallower) thus more surface to volume ratio thus less problem. However, if the lid is all block off then there is no air exchange.
It is the density of life, the biomass, that cause problem. If the tank is full of coral and live rock and sand, then the O2 demand is a lot and at night it will be problem when the light is out and all living thing consume O2 instead of making them.

Not disputing what you said, but wouldnt you expect the deaths to happen either overnight or for the oxygen concentration to slowly fall instead of able to support happy fish on minute and plummet so low within 1 hour the fish would die?

 

[gbroadbridge]

In the course of an hour, all of the fish in my 32 just suddenly died inexpilcably. An hour or so ago, they were all swimming around fine and doing great. The corals and the inverts are fine.

Lost about 300$ in fish (A paired group of mocha storms and ORA mandarin I was successfully fattening up) just like that with no explanation. Tested the water, it’s fine so I’m guessing either all of the oxygen suddenly disappeared (no bacterial bloom or anything) and they somehow suffocated, or there’s suddenly stray voltage in the tank. Don’t have a volt meter but the only things in there are an axis return pump and a Helios probe

I would say that some pollutant made its way into the tank.

I doubt an oxygen problem, and I'm 100% certain that it's not 'stray voltage' which does not exist in the way most people think it does.

 

[steveschuerger]

Definitely not a tray voltage situation. I’ve experienced one. Killed corals but not the fish or arthropods and snails. And ammonia kills everything in high enough levels. What corals? I recently had a fairly modest sized toadstool leather get ticked at something and hit the the tank with terpenes which killed all my Acros and a few other lps..

 

[Nano_Tuners]

So i thought of something else... Though its also a long-shot

I moved this tank into the laundry room since im moving this week, which has a gas heater on the other side of the room. There is a co2 detector in the room though that shows normal and the pilot light is still lit

 

[Nano_Tuners]

I would say that some pollutant made its way into the tank.

Yeah the more I ponder it over the more this seems most likely, although I have no idea what it would be

 

[Nano_Tuners]

Definitely not a tray voltage situation. I’ve experienced one. Killed corals but not the fish or arthropods and snails. And ammonia kills everything in high enough levels. What corals? I recently had a fairly modest sized toadstool leather get ticked at something and hit the the tank with terpenes which killed all my Acros and a few other lps..

theres some zoas and a torch on a rack in the tank

 

[BristleWormHater]

Yeah the more I ponder it over the more this seems most likely, although I have no idea what it would be

Does anyone live with you?

 

[gbroadbridge]

So i thought of something else... Though its also a long-shot

I moved this tank into the laundry room since im moving this week, which has a gas heater on the other side of the room. There is a co2 detector in the room though that shows normal and the pilot light is still lit

Does the CO2 detector also detect Carbon Monoxide?
If not you may want to check that out as a matter of urgency.

 

[steveschuerger]

theres some zoas and a torch on a rack in the tank

Unless the zoas got damaged somehow I don’t see problems there. And even then palytoxin varies with some zoas pretty harmless.