Feeling Gutted - Suspected PBT with Ich

[Lostoften]

I believe my PBT has Ich, hoping not, but looks like it.

Video 1

Video 2

The PBT has been in tank for a couple months, all fish underwent the qt protocol recommended. Nothing wet goes to the tank without 60 days+ in fishless qt. Nothing is shared between tanks, except for fresh saltwater mixing and RO buckets/pumps.

Noticed the bumps yesterday, was hoping for it to be just sand/air bubbles but that doesn't seem to be the case. Tangs eating and breathing normally. The PBT did seem more aggressive today towards the gem tang and foxface. No other fish show any signs.

Only recent changes, ATI results came back last week and showed elevated zinc. Added polyfilter and cuprisorb to tank last week.

Also confirmed dino's were back (LCA vs ostreo this time), swept sandbed with UV light and dosed 150 ml of MicroBacter Purple M.

The water has a lot of debris under white lights, looks like copepods sized. Not sure what is causing that.

Still dialing in trident NP, but nutrients usally 30's NO3 and 0.15-0.2 PO4. Did a 25 gallon water change, and replaced GFO and Carbon in reactor.

Appreciate any insights.

 

[Lostoften]

Water parameters and a still pictures. Switching lights to white light and PBT hides.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Water parameters and a still pictures. Switching lights to white light and PBT hides.

These fish are prone to skin irritaions and what I see are mucus cones often stemming from irritations and may be mixed in with ich and as you see, other fish may not show signs. Its advised to treat the PBT for sure and others for a full 30 days using coppersafe at 2.25 ppm treatment level monitored with a Hanna Brand Copper test kit for a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period). Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off and with occupants exposed, they too should go into quarantine
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[MnFish1]

Agree with above - additionally - to me the gem tang is not swimming completely normally - and if I slow / stop the video I THINK -(not sure) there are some spots on the fins of the Gem tank and the Copperband - but again - part of that may be debris in the water. In any case - as already mentioned - all fish need treatment.

 

[Lostoften]

Unfortunately, timing is always awful on fish events. Leave for scout camp this weekend, and there is no way my wife will be able to maintain QT tanks for the fish and monitor ammonia/copper.

Reading Jay's article on ich management, it mentions a specific kill rate on UV. Does this tie back to a specific watt/gallon with a flow rate? I have a UV unit plumbed into the sump, and have another that I used for a dino outbreak that I ran to and from the display.

How quickly does Ich typically progress? I leave on the 22nd and not back until the 28th.

When I lost the initial stocking, it progressed pretty quickly. Although cause was not determined.

On positive, looked at copperbad and gem and dont see anything on their bodies or fins.

 

[Lostoften]

Also, is there anyway to determine mucus plugs vs Ich? Or no because mucus plugs are a symptom of Ich infection along with similar appearance.

The only thing added to tank that didn’t undergo copper treatment or 60 days of fishless QT was: fish food, live phytoplankton, couple brands of bacteria in a bottle and copepods. I did confirm that the phytoplankton and copepods came from a fishless facility (Dinkins).

This tank is almost a year old, and has ran into every issue possible, despite trying to take precautions.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, is there anyway to determine mucus plugs vs Ich? Or no because mucus plugs are a symptom of Ich infection along with similar appearance.

The only thing added to tank that didn’t undergo copper treatment or 60 days of fishless QT was: fish food, live phytoplankton, couple brands of bacteria in a bottle and copepods. I did confirm that the phytoplankton and copepods came from a fishless facility (Dinkins).

This tank is almost a year old, and has ran into every issue possible, despite trying to take precautions.

Mucus plugs in tangs are often, but not always caused by ich. They are typically larger than ich spots, and are rarely seen on the fins. Ich is smaller, often seen on fins, and the spots tend to come and go and change location every few days.

Your PBT has large spots, mostly on the body. Those are mucus plugs. Trouble is, I can’t tell you if there is underlying ich or not.

 

[Lostoften]

So many particles in water but had my son send these to me while at work.

Video 3

 

[MnFish1]

So many particles in water but had my son send these to me while at work.

Video 3

I'm going to weigh in with Ich/mucus cones - meaning all fish need to be treated - however that's only what I would do - You do not necessarily want to wait until the other fish show symptoms/disease. Its possible your tang will make it through with 'ich management'

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So many particles in water but had my son send these to me while at work.

Video 3

I can see some spots on the clear portions of the eyes, and I think I can see faint spots on the fins - I’d say this is ich.

 

[Lostoften]

Thank you all for the input, and fully understand qt’ing all fish and treating with copper would be the best option. However, given that I am about to be away from tank for a week, I’m trying to decide the best course of action.

My wife doesn’t have time or the confidence to monitor qt tanks appropriately.

Would adding a second UV unit running to and from the display help? Any merit using the UV sweeper on sandbed help with Ich tomonts?

Trying to minimize risk until back from scout camp, and unfortunately think both action and in action carry their risks.

I have a stand for a 75g, but no tank for it. If could be reused for non-copper or is necessary given current stocking I will just pick one up.

Also current stocking might be pushing my qt setup:
29G: Gem Tang / Powder Blue with divider
29G: Kole Tang / Foxface with divider
20l: 2 clowns, copperband, leopard wrasse, 2 anthias
20l: carpenters wrasse, watchman goby, flame angel and file fish

I also only have 2 sponge filters for HOB filters seeding in sump. Is there a material that would help prevent ammonia spikes that can seed until starting treatment?

Can't believe that the tank didn't even make it 6 months without issues.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you all for the input, and fully understand qt’ing all fish and treating with copper would be the best option. However, given that I am about to be away from tank for a week, I’m trying to decide the best course of action.

My wife doesn’t have time or the confidence to monitor qt tanks appropriately.

Would adding a second UV unit running to and from the display help? Any merit using the UV sweeper on sandbed help with Ich tomonts?

Trying to minimize risk until back from scout camp, and unfortunately think both action and in action carry their risks.

I have a stand for a 75g, but no tank for it. If could be reused for non-copper or is necessary given current stocking I will just pick one up.

Also current stocking might be pushing my qt setup:
29G: Gem Tang / Powder Blue with divider
29G: Kole Tang / Foxface with divider
20l: 2 clowns, copperband, leopard wrasse, 2 anthias
20l: carpenters wrasse, watchman goby, flame angel and file fish

I also only have 2 sponge filters for HOB filters seeding in sump. Is there a material that would help prevent ammonia spikes that can seed until starting treatment?

Can't believe that the tank didn't even make it 6 months without issues.

Hobbyist sized UV units cannot kill tomonts. It may reduce the tomite stages enough to slow the infection down, but it’s tough to say for sure.

 

[Lostoften]

Looks like a tank can be reused after copper, as long as wiped out will with vinegar. I will plan to pick up a 75gallon as they are on sale. This will allow most of the smaller fish, and kole tang and foxface to be housed for 60 days while tank goes fallow. Will put the gem and PBT in separate 29g, hopefully this will be large enough to keep everyone happy for the 60 days.

Fingers crossed they can all withstand/build immunity for the two weeks before I can start treatment.

Wont add the second UV to tank, as it seems minimal benefit, but adds complexity for wife to manage while I'm away.

 

[Lostoften]

Home from camp, and was able to get the PBT and 2 clowns moved to a 29G QT. Dosed 50% of expected copper dose.

Fish trap added to display to try and get fish accustom two as other QT's are being set up.

Fingers crossed everyone makes it, and that the fallow this time holds. Still unsure how ich was introduced to tank.

 

[Lostoften]

Foxface, copperband, file, kole tang in the 75G and Gem in the 29g. Need to catch 2 anthias, leopard wrasse, carpenter wrasse, flame angel and goby yet.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Foxface, copperband, file, kole tang in the 75G and Gem in the 29g. Need to catch 2 anthias, leopard wrasse, carpenter wrasse, flame angel and goby yet.

And none of the remaining fish are showing symptoms?

 

[Lostoften]

No symptoms noticed on other fish, the PBT cleared up signs and is on the 5th day of copper.

The foxface is so dramatic with stress markings whenever there is change.

 

[Lostoften]

Down to the anthias, leopard and goby to catch. Unfortunately, none of them are showing any interest in the food in the trap.

 

[Lostoften]

Hobby captured, anthias and leopard are being a pain. Hopefully can capture them without removing rock/draining tank

 

[Lostoften]

Well lost the carpenters wrasse this morning. I hadn’t seen him eat the last three days. In the display he ate minimally due to the leopard wrasse chasing him off. Think just too much stress. He was not in copper treatment.