Am I dealing with ich here?

[Biff0rz]

First, I qt or purchase qt'd everything. Fish, Inverts, all of it.

My last fish purchase was 2mo ago and it's not been introduced to the system. My last invert purchase was 6mo ago. I've never added a fish or invert without it being qt'd, and I'm very careful where I buy it.

Yesterday I noticed some spots on my naso and purple, but chalked it up to fighting. They swat once a in a while. But it's mostly my purple and achilles that have beefs. So the naso having some was strange. Today I notice more white flat spots on the purple, both sides. Same with the naso but the naso has some raised pin head sized ones. And now so does the achilles - raised pin head sized. My copperband has two spots too. My yellow tang has nothing. Wrasse, nothing. Anthias, nothing. All other fish, nothing. I have a connected frag tank with a sailfin and a clown tang, no signs on them.

In the event this is ich, I have zero idea where it came from. The new fish I purchased was qt'd but I have him bulking up in an observation tank and he shows zero signs of ich and hasn't shown signs either. I have a uv but it's been only running at night for 4hrs for the past 6mo+.

All fish are behaving normally, no scratching behaviors. Eating normally.

So I'm not really sure what the heck is going on here.

Here's a video, I can grab stills if needed.

 

[Biff0rz]

@Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal]

First, I qt or purchase qt'd everything. Fish, Inverts, all of it.

My last fish purchase was 2mo ago and it's not been introduced to the system. My last invert purchase was 6mo ago. I've never added a fish or invert without it being qt'd, and I'm very careful where I buy it.

Yesterday I noticed some spots on my naso and purple, but chalked it up to fighting. They swat once a in a while. But it's mostly my purple and achilles that have beefs. So the naso having some was strange. Today I notice more white flat spots on the purple, both sides. Same with the naso but the naso has some raised pin head sized ones. And now so does the achilles - raised pin head sized. My copperband has two spots too. My yellow tang has nothing. Wrasse, nothing. Anthias, nothing. All other fish, nothing. I have a connected frag tank with a sailfin and a clown tang, no signs on them.

In the event this is ich, I have zero idea where it came from. The new fish I purchased was qt'd but I have him bulking up in an observation tank and he shows zero signs of ich and hasn't shown signs either. I have a uv but it's been only running at night for 4hrs for the past 6mo+.

All fish are behaving normally, no scratching behaviors. Eating normally.

So I'm not really sure what the heck is going on here.

Here's a video, I can grab stills if needed.

It does look like ich (but the larger spot on the tail of the copperband could just be a broken fin ray).

You *might* still be in a position to aggressively manage this in-situ as opposed to pulling all of the fish to treat them.

"Ich Management"

Because this topic continues to come up, I wanted to create a sticky thread so that it is more easily referenced. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling marine ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Biff0rz]

It does look like ich (but the larger spot on the tail of the copperband could just be a broken fin ray).

You *might* still be in a position to aggressively manage this in-situ as opposed to pulling all of the fish to treat them.

"Ich Management"

Because this topic continues to come up, I wanted to create a sticky thread so that it is more easily referenced. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling marine ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and...

www.reef2reef.com

Agree w the copperband. Well, shoot, Idk how I got it. That's what doesn't make sense to me. Can it come in on corals??

I read the management article, I'm not sure I'll be able to siphon much. Much of the floor is not accessible due to branches of sps and rocks. I'm also not sure I should be dosing that much hydrogen peroxide to an sps tank. Sigh. I guess this means my only real options are to pull all the fish and go fallow?? This is gunna be so horrible.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Agree w the copperband. Well, shoot, Idk how I got it. That's what doesn't make sense to me. Can it come in on corals??

I read the management article, I'm not sure I'll be able to siphon much. Much of the floor is not accessible due to branches of sps and rocks. I'm also not sure I should be dosing that much hydrogen peroxide to an sps tank. Sigh. I guess this means my only real options are to pull all the fish and go fallow?? This is gunna be so horrible.

Yes, ich can be transmitted tank to tank on anything wet.

What I would do is turn your UV on 24/7, set up a treatment tank, get everything lined up to go and then wait to see how the disease progresses.

 

[Ziggy17]

First, I qt or purchase qt'd everything. Fish, Inverts, all of it.

My last fish purchase was 2mo ago and it's not been introduced to the system. My last invert purchase was 6mo ago. I've never added a fish or invert without it being qt'd, and I'm very careful where I buy it.

Yesterday I noticed some spots on my naso and purple, but chalked it up to fighting. They swat once a in a while. But it's mostly my purple and achilles that have beefs. So the naso having some was strange. Today I notice more white flat spots on the purple, both sides. Same with the naso but the naso has some raised pin head sized ones. And now so does the achilles - raised pin head sized. My copperband has two spots too. My yellow tang has nothing. Wrasse, nothing. Anthias, nothing. All other fish, nothing. I have a connected frag tank with a sailfin and a clown tang, no signs on them.

In the event this is ich, I have zero idea where it came from. The new fish I purchased was qt'd but I have him bulking up in an observation tank and he shows zero signs of ich and hasn't shown signs either. I have a uv but it's been only running at night for 4hrs for the past 6mo+.

All fish are behaving normally, no scratching behaviors. Eating normally.

So I'm not really sure what the heck is going on here.

Here's a video, I can grab stills if needed.

What’s you QT protocol for new fish?
What’s the store’s QT protocol of the QT’d fish you buy?
This won’t help what’s happening now, but perhaps could save this from happening again.
Personally, I wouldn’t trust someone else’s protocol if purchasing one that is claimed QT’d, but I’m a skeptic.

 

[Biff0rz]

Yes, ich can be transmitted tank to tank on anything wet.

What I would do is turn your UV on 24/7, set up a treatment tank, get everything lined up to go and then wait to see how the disease progresses.

So really a coral could have some? Wow. This is news to me.

Sigh, this will suck so bad. Will I need to catch all inverts too?

 

[Biff0rz]

What’s you QT protocol for new fish?
What’s the store’s QT protocol of the QT’d fish you buy?
This won’t help what’s happening now, but perhaps could save this from happening again.
Personally, I wouldn’t trust someone else’s protocol if purchasing one that is claimed QT’d, but I’m a skeptic.

This isn't really helpful or valid in any way. I was fairly clear in explaining that I only purchase fully QT'd animals. But I'll entertain since you're skeptical.

When I self-qt I use humble fish's TTM protocol including 90d post treatment observation. This includes all medications for deworming and whatnot. Then they go to the display.

I've purchased QT'd animals from TSM, Dr reefs, and other well respected vendors (those that humble fish approve). But even those fish go through the 90d observation before going to the display. This includes all inverts.

The only that that goes quickly into the display or connected frag tank is corals. That's it. I've spent a LOT of extra money and took a lot of extra time to prevent ich. If anyone has done it right and been strict about this, it was me. But, apparently not, since now corals can carry it. Essentially there's zero way to keep it out.

And notable for this current situation, a fish has not been introduced in a long long time (over 6mo).

I'm not the typical new reefer who just buys them and plops them in the display. Never have, never will.

 

[W31Olds]

Sure Coral frags can have Ich Tomonts on the Frag base or the Base of the Coral. You just need to QT your corals in a separate Tank. That's what I do but I don't have many corals yet. As far as an UV System, do you have it properly sized for Ich Management? You must have a large Tank so would need a big System with slowish flow. I'm running an 80 Watt on my 170 Gallon System 24/7.

 

[Idech]

You could try Polyp lab Reef medic since it’s a mild case. Lots of people manage ich in their tanks. Turn on the UV too if you have one.

 

[Biff0rz]

Sure Coral frags can have Ich Tomonts on the Frag base or the Base of the Coral. You just need to QT your corals in a separate Tank. That's what I do but I don't have many corals yet. As far as an UV System, do you have it properly sized for Ich Management? You must have a large Tank so would need a big System with slowish flow. I'm running an 80 Watt on my 170 Gallon System 24/7.

I have a 90w lifeguard, sized for dino which is overkill for ich management. So I'll turn it on.

You could try Polyp lab Reef medic since it’s a mild case. Lots of people manage ich in their tanks. Turn on the UV too if you have one.

I'll look into that, thanks. Do you know if how I plumb the UV matters? I used to have it plumbed closed-loop on the display (display -> uv -> display) but changed it a long bit ago for ozone to sump stage 4 -> ozone -> uv -> sump stage 1.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So really a coral could have some? Wow. This is news to me.

Sigh, this will suck so bad. Will I need to catch all inverts too?

No, corals don’t get ich, it’s just the resting stage, called a tomont, can stick to surfaces and get carried from tank to tank. The swimming theront stage can get carried tank to tank in water.

If left in a fishless tank for 60 days, the tomonts will all die out due to lack of any fish hosts.

 

[W31Olds]

I don't like it strictly recirculating from the sump back to the sump. Mine pumps it from the sump to the opposite end of the Tank. For your tank size, flow rate, and the exposure needed to manage Ich, 90watts is probably a bit small. Problem is, if you don't have a chiller, the larger units tend to heat up the water. Ich is tough to kill using UV.

 

[acroholicanonymous]

I have ich in my tank for a year now. As soon as I added an UV sterilizer and keeping everyone well fed, I haven’t even seen it pop back up.

I have 4 tangs in my tank with 9 other fish. I had all “quarantined” fish as I couldn’t do it myself. Hard to say if it came in on the fish and/or came in on one of the corals I have. Wish I had the ability to quarantine everything but it is what it is.

 

[Ziggy17]

This isn't really helpful or valid in any way. I was fairly clear in explaining that I only purchase fully QT'd animals. But I'll entertain since you're skeptical.

you’re the one with Ich, so perhaps it’s quite valid.
Anyhow, hopefully you don’t lose any fish.

 

[Idech]

I have a 90w lifeguard, sized for dino which is overkill for ich management. So I'll turn it on.


I'll look into that, thanks. Do you know if how I plumb the UV matters? I used to have it plumbed closed-loop on the display (display -> uv -> display) but changed it a long bit ago for ozone to sump stage 4 -> ozone -> uv -> sump stage 1.

For UV what matters is the flow. It’s different from when you’re using it from algae. I don’t remember it by heart but your manufacturer should say in the instructions.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have a 90w lifeguard, sized for dino which is overkill for ich management. So I'll turn it on.


I'll look into that, thanks. Do you know if how I plumb the UV matters? I used to have it plumbed closed-loop on the display (display -> uv -> display) but changed it a long bit ago for ozone to sump stage 4 -> ozone -> uv -> sump stage 1.

For controlling ich, the UV must have its intake in the main part of the tank, so that it captures more of the swarming theront stage (that’s the only stage that UV has any affect on.

 

[Biff0rz]

For controlling ich, the UV must have its intake in the main part of the tank, so that it captures more of the swarming theront stage (that’s the only stage that UV has any affect on.

Interesting. Everything I've read is most reefers plumb the UV in-line on the return post-sump. So, are all of those setups invalid? I'm confused because I've read a lot of people manage it this way and have had success in doing it this way. But, their intakes are not direct in the display.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Interesting. Everything I've read is most reefers plumb the UV in-line on the return post-sump. So, are all of those setups invalid? I'm confused because I've read a lot of people manage it this way and have had success in doing it this way. But, their intakes are not direct in the display.

Yes, for controlling ich, plumbing the return from the pump is not as good. In fact, if your sump has mechanical filtration, plumbing that way is virtually useless.

The ich theronts emerge from the tank bottom each morning and seek out fish to infect. You must have the intake to the UV taking that infected water as soon as possible in order to try and kill them.

UV is really overrated as a cure for marine ich. Hobbyist units just aren’t large enough. Then, there is the issue of “dwell time”. Even if your UV pick up is in the main tank, many of the theronts will reach a fish before ever being caught up by the UV.

 

[Biff0rz]

Yes, for controlling ich, plumbing the return from the pump is not as good. In fact, if your sump has mechanical filtration, plumbing that way is virtually useless.

The ich theronts emerge from the tank bottom each morning and seek out fish to infect. You must have the intake to the UV taking that infected water as soon as possible in order to try and kill them.

UV is really overrated as a cure for marine ich. Hobbyist units just aren’t large enough. Then, there is the issue of “dwell time”. Even if your UV pick up is in the main tank, many of the theronts will reach a fish before ever being caught up by the UV.

This generally lines up with what I've mostly read. So those reefers that are managing ich and having success with it must be done via different means of they are having success.

And yea, I've read you need a fairly beefy uv and fairly low flow to actually kill them, that way they have enough uvc exposure. But then you bring up the other part of this - if there's one intake and it cannot suck all of it up in the morning, they will find fish first. Essentially it sounds like you're only reducing a small percentage vs actually impacting the numbers in a significant way.

Does this mean most fish build immunity and fend it off to have success? Vs actual help from the UV.