Few questions about cycling.

[TonyHanke]

Hello everyone, I've got a question about cycling a reef tank. I know what the nitrogen cycle is, and I know how to do it in freshwater, but I know there are many differences between this, and marine tank cycling. I'm planning to use cured live rock, and some bottled bacteria, and I will be adding bottled ammonia to 2ppm. I know about the "ugly phase" but I keep finding so much conflicting information about it. I want to do fishless cycle. When could I introduce the CUC and pods? And when should I turn on the lights? I want the tank to be as stable as possible, whitout investing too much time (I know nothing good in this hobby happens when acting quit, but I'd like to shorten that time so it's the shortest of the long ). Thank you in advice.

 

[Fish Fan]

Good questions!

Can we clarify one thing: when you say you'll be using "cured rock", is this wet live rock that comes out of a tank at your local aquarium store, or something else? If you're using real, wet live rock, there's no need to cycle, the rock is already cycled. If you're using anything else, then you'll likely need the bottled bacteria and an ammonia source for a fish-less cycle.

EDIT: And how much of the cured rock will you be using in what size tank? Will you be using 100% cured live rock or less?

 

[twentyleagues]

Hello everyone, I've got a question about cycling a reef tank. I know what the nitrogen cycle is, and I know how to do it in freshwater, but I know there are many differences between this, and marine tank cycling. I'm planning to use cured live rock, and some bottled bacteria, and I will be adding bottled ammonia to 2ppm. I know about the "ugly phase" but I keep finding so much conflicting information about it. I want to do fishless cycle. When could I introduce the CUC and pods? And when should I turn on the lights? I want the tank to be as stable as possible, whitout investing too much time (I know nothing good in this hobby happens when acting quit, but I'd like to shorten that time so it's the shortest of the long ). Thank you in advice.

Lets start with your rock. What do you mean by "cured live rock"? Is the rock actually from the ocean or an lfs? If lfs how long has it been cured?

 

[Reef Jedi]

I personally really like starting a cycle with Fritz Turbo start 900. Stuff works so well. Drop in a raw shrimp and keep testing levels to watch the cycle. Fishless cycles can take longer however they work. I’m oldschool and drop in a pair of clowns to speed it up. (People may roast me for it but it’s how we did it for a long time)

 

[Euphyllia97]

Not much difference actually. In saltwater we don’t care about nitrite as it is not toxic like in freshwater. You can add pods and CUC when you hit 0 ammonia. At that point the first fish can also be added if you want. With bottled bacteria and live rock I think it will take you not more than 2 weeks to have enough bacteria to cycle ammonia to 0. Might even be quicker depending on what is meant by “cured live rock”

 

[TonyHanke]

OK, so by "cured live rock" I mean wet live rock I've bought in store, and then cured by following this guide: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-curing-live-rock-bible-and-faq.546769/ . I'm planning on using 1:9 live to dry rock, maybe some more live. So what about the ugly phase, lights and pods?

 

[TonyHanke]

I will be using bottled bacteria as well, because I will buy it anyway to cycle the QT, as it's my first reef.

 

[Fish Fan]

OK, so by "cured live rock" I mean wet live rock I've bought in store, and then cured by following this guide: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-curing-live-rock-bible-and-faq.546769/ . I'm planning on using 1:9 live to dry rock, maybe some more live. So what about the ugly phase, lights and pods?

I've just skimmed that article, and the information there should really be for curing wet rock that has been shipped for weeks at a time on a boat from Indonesia, and would have a lot of die off. This is not necessary for rock that you buy from a fish store, they've basically already done this curing for you.

In my opinion, you don't need any extra bottled bacteria, you're paying for wet live rock because of the beneficial microbes it comes with.

I would setup your tank and add both your wet live rock and your dry, I'd give it a day or so in case there's something of a "mini cycle" just from moving the live rock, and then I'd start to slowly stock with some hardy livestock.

I wouldn't add a clean up crew or even 'pods until there's something for them to eat, which will probably come a few weeks after the tank has been running.

 

[TonyHanke]

So I should just put the rock in the tank, and let it sit inside? But what if I want to do a fishless cycle? And, as I said I will still have bottled bacteria. Should I leave the light's on?

 

[twentyleagues]

With the small amount of live rock you are adding it won't hurt to still do the fishless cycle. It would not hurt regardless but would not be needed if all live. While using fish food or raw shrimp will work it will be faster to use ammonium chloride from a bottle. once your tank can process 2.0 ammonia in 24hrs or less you can start to add pods and phyto. I let my tank cycle for a month in darkness, dry rock bottled bacteria ammonia no live rock. Once I saw diatoms start to show up I started adding pods and phyto, and my first fish. I waited until I started to see small bits of algae green coating on the rocks and film algae on the glass to add any meaningful cuc this was probably 6 weeks into the tank running lights had been on for about 2 weeks. I started coral transfer about 5 weeks into the tank running. Then it was just maintaining the tank, water changes, coral snow, blow off the rocks, never really had an ugly stage. Recently my tang has decided he no longer wants to eat any of the algae the tank will grow and I could probably do a cuc refresh, so a weekly pulling of a little bit of a hair algae like puffs but this is what 2 years now into it running. I guess I am a late ugly phase bloomer...lol and its really not bad in fact It looks quite natural.

 

[Euphyllia97]

So I should just put the rock in the tank, and let it sit inside? But what if I want to do a fishless cycle? And, as I said I will still have bottled bacteria. Should I leave the light's on?

Yeah, the cycle will already be established by the rocks itself or will start automatically by the die-off. Just put your rocks in and put some pods in it immediately. 2/3 times a week feed the tank some phytoplankton and once you have confirmed ammonia to stay at 0, you can add your cuc and first fish.

Whenever you put tour lights on you can expect your “uglies”. Hard to tell what to expect as it is so different depending on what is in your tank. Generally expect waves of diatoms, GHa and maybe some cyano. Might take a couple of months to fully stabilise but you might not ever see any GHA. It depends on the biodiversity in your tank. (Pods really help to keep the uglies down).

 

[TonyHanke]

OK, update here: I've found out, that I would be able to buy live rock from indonesia. Would you recommend to buy it over dry rock?

 

[lapin]

OK, update here: I've found out, that I would be able to buy live rock from indonesia. Would you recommend to buy it over dry rock?

This is a depends question.
Dry rock you get nothing. It is an empty slate for you to work on.
Rock that’s live from the ocean comes with a lot of stuff. That can be good and bad stuff.
You will get people on both sides with yes and no .
Both work.

 

[TonyHanke]

But what would be faster to cycle, and give me more stable tank after the cycle? I will add pods and culture phyto anyway.

 

[lapin]

The tank is only going to become as stable as your maintenance routine is.
Live rock will all ready have Bacteria in it. In theory it will be faster. However you will have die off and ammonia to deal with.
Old saying that is still good advice today: nothing good happens fast in a reef tank

 

[TonyHanke]

The tank is only going to become as stable as your maintenance routine is.
Live rock will all ready have Bacteria in it. In theory it will be faster. However you will have die off and ammonia to deal with.
Old saying that is still good advice today: nothing good happens fast in a reef tank

Iike I said in the beggining of the thread, I know that nothing good happens fast in this hobby, but I want to decrease the long time, so it's shortest of the long periods of time heh.

 

[Fish Fan]

If you can get real, Indonesian live rock, I'd use that, but it's not without its own concerns, from significant die off in transit to unwanted pest organisms. Do you know how it's being shipped, like, wrapped in damp newspaper, and how long the rock would be in transit?

 

[TonyHanke]

I will visit the shop on my own tommorow, I'm writing an email to the second one.

 

[Freenow54]

Hello everyone, I've got a question about cycling a reef tank. I know what the nitrogen cycle is, and I know how to do it in freshwater, but I know there are many differences between this, and marine tank cycling. I'm planning to use cured live rock, and some bottled bacteria, and I will be adding bottled ammonia to 2ppm. I know about the "ugly phase" but I keep finding so much conflicting information about it. I want to do fishless cycle. When could I introduce the CUC and pods? And when should I turn on the lights? I want the tank to be as stable as possible, whitout investing too much time (I know nothing good in this hobby happens when acting quit, but I'd like to shorten that time so it's the shortest of the long ). Thank you in advice.

Simply put the article I use you just maintain an Ammonia level letting Nitrites , and Nitrates do their thing. When Ammonia starts to show zero raise it to 4 ppm , then it all should be zero in 24 hours. You are then done. Don't worry about the " ugly Phase as the article states that it will straighten out quickly. Mine did so don't lose it and panic. the lights are on at the end that is why the ugly stage occurs as far as I am concerned . ( dynos )