First Fishless Cycle

[TK_KW]

Question with my cycle, #reefsquad

DT parameters are
ph 7.98
phosphate 0.03
nitrate 0.02
nitrite 16
cal 493
dkh 6.7
ammonia over 3ppm?

I have hanna ammonia checker. ramge 0 - 3.-00, and its reading 3.00 flashing which im assuming means its higher. Does this suggest bacteria levels still are not high enough? I applied Seed, as directed from bottle for first seven days. Used Marco dry rock, dry sand. Currently ghost feed every day. Tank is on day 23 cycling.

Also i added a few snails and crabs few days ago, is this an issue with high Ammonia?

side question, What is considered high Nitrite in a tank?

 

[sbash]

Yes, if your ammonia is reading more than 0 (zero) then your snails and crabs could die from poisoning.

Technically, nitrites above 0 (zero) should be considered high. If you tank is cycled and a solid biological filter is established, then ammonia and nitrite should remain at zero.

I would keep dosing the Seed and checking ammonia every couple days. What did you add to kick off the cycle? (Shrimp, fish food, direct ammonia).

 

[TK_KW]

Yes, if your ammonia is reading more than 0 (zero) then your snails and crabs could die from poisoning.

Technically, nitrites above 0 (zero) should be considered high. If you tank is cycled and a solid biological filter is established, then ammonia and nitrite should remain at zero.

I would keep dosing the Seed and checking ammonia every couple days. What did you add to kick off the cycle? (Shrimp, fish food, direct ammonia).

Just aquavitro seed, and ghost feeding, what my lfs said to do. I have dr Tim's ammonia coming in, and a bottle of all in 1

 

[sbash]

Just aquavitro seed, and ghost feeding, what my lfs said to do. I have dr Tim's ammonia coming in, and a bottle of all in 1

So yeah, I would lay off the feeding until the ammonia gets down to zero, then start feeding back up and testing daily.

 

[bigdrew]

With a detectable level of Nitrite, you are in the midst of a cycle. Keep it going. Eventually ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and then nitrate will spike. Then, need Nitrate to slowly come down...then, the diatoms, hair algae and then cyano. Once all of those have run their course, you are good. Once nitrate comes down, you could be good with some initial livestock introduction (snails and hermits and maybe a fish or two), but just realize those other stages are natural and need to occur. They are balancing our PO4 and other items. My cycle took about 5 weeks. I used livesand, dry rock, ghost feedings with a pellet food. My cyano stage was the only weird one. It seemed to never really ramp up....just creep in and then barely, ever so slowly creeped away. I still have it a little. The goal is really patience and checking water parameters.

 

[Lasse]

IMO - you should stop ghost feeding and take away all organic matter you can see. Keep dosing nitrification bacteria. Do not dose any ammonia when you got it. Not sure that Hanna ammonia checker is valid for SW. Just wait till you read 0 in nitrite.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

I bet tank is cycled due to being hydrated with those boosters for 23 days. your testing may not indicate it, but there are ways we can make it comply with a couple adjusts after this long underwater.

how many gallons total

nitrite doesn't factor whatsoever, nor nitrate

only ammonia behavior matters at that time frame, once its verified and once we know if its holding v rising





3 ppm sustained will cause micro benthic animals, cuc, to display clear distress and your water will cloud and smell so that's an amazing sustained reading you are getting

you'd be able to smell .5 clearly.

3 ppm your lady boots you...

can we see pics

does it smell wierd

 

[TK_KW]

Ok maybe I'm nutz? Maybe @Lasse your right about the checker? I . So tested my display came back at max reading of checker flashing 3:00. Tested QT2 tank(which houses ten fish) also came back flashing at 3:00 as a max. Tested RODI water to see if calibration was an issue and it read zero. But look at this photo? I'm so confused lol, check reading above 3, and tag says otherwise?

 

[TK_KW]

I bet tank is cycled due to being hydrated with those boosters for 23 days. your testing may not indicate it, but there are ways we can make it comply with a couple adjusts after this long underwater.

how many gallons total

nitrite doesn't factor whatsoever, nor nitrate

only ammonia behavior matters at that time frame, once its verified and once we know if its holding v rising





3 ppm sustained will cause micro benthic animals, cuc, to display clear distress and your water will cloud and smell so that's an amazing sustained reading you are getting

you'd be able to smell .5 clearly.

3 ppm your lady boots you...

can we see pics

does it smell wierd

Water is crystal clear....

 

[Lasse]

Mix some new SW (with your RODI water that shows 0 ppm) and test it tomorrow. If it shows more than 0 - you know you cant´t use it in SW. Thats NH4-N - it means that it is more than 3.8 ppm as NH4

Sincerely Lasse

 

[BeejReef]

Unless you suspect a problem with your Nitrite test as well, you're cycle isn't near finished with a reading of 16. With that much Nitrite, it's quite possible that your 3.0 for ammonia is correct.

Your alkalinity is a little low as well, and your uber-low Nitrate levels would suggest that they cycle hasn't really gotten well underway yet. You could expect Nitrate to easily rise to the 40-100 range before beginning to come down.

High Nitrite in a saltwater tank seems to be up for debate. I'm not an expert, but I can rehash for you what I've recently read. Nitrite is very toxic to freshwater fish and that's probably why it has such a fierce reputation amonth aquarists. A number of studies have shown that most marine animals and corals are surprisingly unaffected by it at levels of 50 ppm or higher. Regardless, the presence of Nitrite is almost always associated with a system that has not yet fully cycled or is in a state of instability. The rule of thumb is to always be patient and wait for stability before making more changes. Otherwise, you can never really determine cause and effect.

Cycling is like watching paint dry... on your eyeballs. I feel your pain. Unfortunately, I don't think you're even quite to the halfway point with yours yet. I had an asterina starfish survive 3ppm ammonia cycle, but it it doesn't start coming down soon, I'd consider getting those snails and crabs out. Also, until you start growing some algae, they've got nothing to eat.

I do see that you're on day 23. It's possible that your biological filter is "established" enough for snails or a fish or two, but that you're simply overwhelming it with the amount you are ghost feeding. You won't really know until you stop ghost feeding and have confidence in your ammonia test so you can see how quickly ammonia and Nitrite fall. I'm still suspicious of your crazy low phosphate and nitrate levels though. They should be higher by now.

 

[Adalius]

Just FYI, the Hanna site for that checker says Freshwater Only.
https://hannainst.com/hi700-ammonia-lr.html

Line directly above the bullet points but below Add to Cart.

 

[brandon429]

amazing catch I would have never, ever, ever caught that

the clear water and no smell and no piles of rotting feed to overcome what 25 days of bac can certainly digest-that stands out

im wondering how salt levels affect the ammonia accuracy for the reader

 

[TK_KW]

Just FYI, the Hanna site for that checker says Freshwater Only.
https://hannainst.com/hi700-ammonia-lr.html

Line directly above the bullet points but below Add to Cart.

You are 100 percent right. I had no idea it was for fresh water. As I had purchased on Aquarium Depot.ca, on website there was absolutely no specification wether fresh water or salt, I had just assumed as every other checker they sell is for salt. Brutal

 

[Adalius]

You are 100 percent right. I had no idea it was for fresh water. As I had purchased on Aquarium Depot.ca, on website there was absolutely no specification wether fresh water or salt, I had just assumed as every other checker they sell is for salt. Brutal

Happens to the best of us man. Wish Hanna would put right on their checkers if it is/isn't, like Seachem does with their stuff where it'll say 'Fresh & Marine' or just one/other.

 

[brandon429]

Your thread is very helpful it helps to tie in biology+ chemistry+ visual cues moreso than most cycle threads

 

[Crashjack]

Your Ammonia Alert Badge looks between 0 and .05, and having used these a lot in QT tanks, my suspicion is that the lighting and angle is making the indicator look more green than it really is. It is a good idea to get a saltwater ammonia test kit, but you are probably fine as far as your cycle is concerned. Regarding nitrite, it is pretty meaningless in saltwater aquariums. See article by Randy Holmes-Farley http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

 

[Adalius]

Regarding nitrite, it is pretty meaningless in saltwater aquariums.

The article is referring to the testing of nitrate in an established system, in which it is quite correct, it's very unlikely to be needed. Except during cycling, when it's very important to determine if the proper bacteria have taken hold in significant numbers, which is what the OP is doing right now.

 

[Crashjack]

The article is referring to the testing of nitrate in an established system, in which it is quite correct, it's very unlikely to be needed. Except during cycling, when it's very important to determine if the proper bacteria have taken hold in significant numbers, which is what the OP is doing right now.

The article is talking about nitrite (not nitrate), but I see what you are saying with looking at nitrite and nitrate to define the end of a cycle (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate at some measurable level). However, I'm not sure 0 nitrite and some amount of nitrate always holds true, at least in reef aquariums. The bacteria is there, but I'm pretty sure I've read that measurable nitrite is not uncommon in healthy, established reef tanks. Also, a nitrate spike doesn't always occur during a cycle even in FW. If it were me, I would confirm 0 ammonia and if 0, I would start adding hearty livestock at a normal (meaning slow) pace.

 

[Adalius]

The article is talking about nitrite (not nitrate), but I see what you are saying with looking at nitrite and nitrate to define the end of a cycle (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate at some measurable level). However, I'm not sure 0 nitrite and some amount of nitrate always holds true, at least in reef aquariums. The bacteria is there, but I'm pretty sure I've read that measurable nitrite is not uncommon in healthy, established reef tanks. Also, a nitrate spike doesn't always occur during a cycle even in FW. If it were me, I would confirm 0 ammonia and if 0, I would start adding hearty livestock at a normal (meaning slow) pace.

Yes, I meant nitrite not nitrate. Silly scientists making compounds all differ by only one letter. :D

It is absolutely possible to have nitrites in an established tank, especially if one starts a heavy feeding regiment (like the WWC method), but it is unusual to see it at the levels we normally see when doing a cycle. I wouldn't trust 0 ammonia on its own to mean there's enough bacteria built up, however if I had a 0 reading after a little span of time (couple days maybe) and then added an ammonia source (ammonium chloride or a food source to break down) and then still either didn't see a spike, or saw a very small spike that immediately went away, then I'd probably be trusting enough to start putting a very light stocking in.

That said, I have yet to cycle a tank without getting any form of a nitrite spike, and I can only imagine a few situations where that would happen, mostly dealing with either massive bacterial input (reusing live rock from another tank, dumping a ton of bacterial starter in, etc) or not providing enough of an ammonia source from the get go (if I don't put in enough to cause more than a tiny amount of ammonia, there won't be enough digested to form any real nitrite). The former would constitute essentially skipping the cycle, while the latter would most likely be an uncycled situation.