Flame angel - please help identify disease

[seastar]

I've had him in QT for four days and these signs just started showing up. Stopped eating today, heavy breathing. He has white patches (between his eyes, on the right side of his head, some blotches on the left back side near the tail. Looking closely at these photos looks like maybe some fin damage as well?

Any help would be most appreciated, I think Im going to have to make a move pretty quickly.

 

[melypr1985]

Hi! I'm sorry for the trouble with your angel. Are there currently any meds in the QT? Are any of the other fish displaying any of the same symptoms, or even different ones? Were they all introduced at the same time to the QT?

The white patches appear to be a mild bacterial infection, I'm wanting to investigate some to find out the primary reason the infection set in.

 

[seastar]

I added a blue hippo tang to the QT ( 20g ) at the same time. I started Prazipro as the directed dosage two days ago and it continued to eat fine. I went with bacterial infection myself and just treated with ParaGuard. I also have ruby reef rally, Pimafix, Melafix, furan-2 and kanaplex on hand that I could treat with (after running carbon to clear out the other stuff if there's something that might work better.

 

[seastar]

I should also note that it looks a little worse in person than the photos show.

 

[melypr1985]

I added a blue hippo tang to the QT ( 20g ) at the same time. I started Prazipro as the directed dosage two days ago and it continued to eat fine. I went with bacterial infection myself and just treated with ParaGuard. I also have ruby reef rally, Pimafix, Melafix, furan-2 and kanaplex on hand that I could treat with (after running carbon to clear out the other stuff if there's something that might work better.

Ok. So prazipro does tend to effect appetite but it's only active in the water for 48 hours and does it's magic in the first 24 hours. I'm not a big believer in Paraguard but i've seen it work at least once and have heard other good experiences with it. If the infection start spreading or looking worse then get the kanaplex or furan2 in there for him. These two are what I would use right now if it were me. Dont forget to do another dose of prazi in 3 or 4 more days to finish off the treatment.

 

[seastar]

If the infection start spreading or looking worse then get the kanaplex or furan2 in there for him.

Great call, will do. :) Think I should run carbon to clean our the Paraguard tomorrow if I do go that route?

Dont forget to do another dose of prazi in 3 or 4 more days to finish off the treatment.

Thanks for the reminder, any negative reactions to kanaplex or furan-2?

 

[melypr1985]

Great call, will do. :) Think I should run carbon to clean our the Paraguard tomorrow if I do go that route?


Thanks for the reminder, any negative reactions to kanaplex or furan-2?

Well that's up to you ultimately. Personally I would clear it out with carbon and a water change and run the meds I trust. But if it looks like it's working, then by all means keep it up. Document your experience with it and share on here. Me and Humblefish are pretty interested in what it can do. He's even about to start experimenting with these types of meds so i'm sure he would appreciate more experiences.

The general rule with prazi is to not mix it with other meds if you can help it. I've mixed it with several including both kanaplex and furan 2 without much of a problem besides the occasional bacterial bloom. I was ready for that and just added extra oxygenation to the tank until it cleared.

 

[seastar]

I probably wont go longer than tomorrow on the ParaGuard if I don't see improvements, most likely I'll switch over to the kanaplex tomorrow (only not doing it now because I need to make up a bunch of salt water and I'm fighting off a stomach flu myself).

 

[Humblefish]

If this is a bacterial infection and he's breathing heavy/stopped eating, then its most likely a gram negative strain (bad news). Paraguard won't stop it; Kanaplex + Furan-2 + Metroplex would be your only hope.

 

[melypr1985]

If this is a bacterial infection and he's breathing heavy/stopped eating, then its most likely a gram negative strain (bad news). Paraguard won't stop it; Kanaplex + Furan-2 + Metroplex would be your only hope.

Good catch! I didn't think of the possibility of a gram negative bacteria. :)

 

[ncatalan000]

E.M. Erythromycin. That's what I used that when my angel had the white stuff near their eyes. And believe it or not you have more time than you think. I can't tell completely from the pictures but I believe that's what my coal beauty had when I first got him.

 

[seastar]

If this is a bacterial infection and he's breathing heavy/stopped eating, then its most likely a gram negative strain (bad news). Paraguard won't stop it; Kanaplex + Furan-2 + Metroplex would be your only hope.

Off to the store to get some Metroplex then as that's the only one I don't have of those. Thank you for catching this!

Side Note: This fish came form the same LFS that wiped out half my tank with a velvet purchase. They are regarded as the most respected in our area... Is this common or time to give up on them?

 

[seastar]

Question... I have that poor blue hippo tang in here as well, shouldI assume it has been fully exposed to this now as well and put it through the full barrage of treatment, or get it out and monitor separately. I want to say the first to be safe, but is that putting it through stress it doesn't need?

 

[Humblefish]

E.M. Erythromycin. That's what I used that when my angel had the white stuff near their eyes. And believe it or not you have more time than you think. I can't tell completely from the pictures but I believe that's what my coal beauty had when I first got him.

Erythromycin is a good antibiotic but only covers gram positive. You would need to add in Minocycline (or Tetracycline) to achieve full spectrum treatment.

Side Note: This fish came form the same LFS that wiped out half my tank with a velvet purchase. They are regarded as the most respected in our area... Is this common or time to give up on them?

Velvet is running through many of the California wholesalers' systems right now, so its trickling down to many of the LFS/online places. I would either keep a close eye out for symptoms (sit in front of the QT 10-15 mins every day) or just prophylactically treat any fish you buy. Symptoms of velvet (including behavioral ones) are listed here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Question... I have that poor blue hippo tang in here as well, shouldI assume it has been fully exposed to this now as well and put it through the full barrage of treatment, or get it out and monitor separately. I want to say the first to be safe, but is that putting it through stress it doesn't need?

If it's a gram negative infection, those can spread rapidly to other fish. So, I would treat them both.

 

[seastar]

If it's a gram negative infection, those can spread rapidly to other fish. So, I would treat them both.

Thank you!

I've added the other medications, and the Hippo/Regal Tang did what they do best, hide under my sponge filter and act dead, which is a wonderful thing to do to a very concerned tank owner at this point.

Should I follow the instructions of 25% water changes every two days and/or add Prime/Stability?

 

[Humblefish]

Should I follow the instructions of 25% water changes every two days and/or add Prime/Stability?

I would do the water changes as directed, but avoid using Prime/Stability with antibiotics.

 

[seastar]

I would do the water changes as directed, but avoid using Prime/Stability with antibiotics.

Good to know... i was very confused on that part.

 

[seastar]

@Humblefish I know Stability adds bacteria, Prime removes the Ammonia/Nitrate/Nitrite... Do these cause bacterial bloom with antibiotics? Strip Oxygen?

I added some prime last night and now Im thinking I should do a 50% water change and start all over. I'd still have medications in from this morning, should I add back in a half dose? This should all be so simple for me but I'm struggling... :(

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish I know Stability adds bacteria, Prime removes the Ammonia/Nitrate/Nitrite... Do these cause bacterial bloom with antibiotics? Strip Oxygen?

I added some prime last night and now Im thinking I should do a 50% water change and start all over. I'd still have medications in from this morning, should I add back in a half dose? This should all be so simple for me but I'm struggling... :(

Stability adds bacteria, but if meds are already in the water they will just kill the live bacteria before it ever has a chance to get seeded in bio-media. So, its best to dose Stability at least a few days before dosing meds. Longer seeding time is better. ;)

Prime causes interaction issues with certain medications, especially copper which sees an increase in toxicity. When mixing Prime with antibiotics, a bacterial bloom in possible and that can cause cloudy water which starves oxygen out of the water. O2 levels are already a concern when treating fish with meds, so you don't want to do anything that can make the problem worse.

 

[seastar]

Stability adds bacteria, but if meds are already in the water they will just kill the live bacteria before it ever has a chance to get seeded in bio-media. So, its best to dose Stability at least a few days before dosing meds. Longer seeding time is better. ;)

Prime causes interaction issues with certain medications, especially copper which sees an increase in toxicity. When mixing Prime with antibiotics, a bacterial bloom in possible and that can cause cloudy water which starves oxygen out of the water. O2 levels are already a concern when treating fish with meds, so you don't want to do anything that can make the problem worse.

Thank you for taking the time to clarify all that for me. I just hope this little guy pulls through now.