Flame angel swimming in circles.

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by SeaJay, May 15, 2019.

  1. SeaJay

    SeaJay Active Member

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    This guy is in quarantine. Treated for two weeks with prazipro and then a week ramping up to 2.0 copper power where he has now been for a little over two weeks. Everything has been fine until today I come home to find him swimming in circles non stop and didn’t eat for the first time.

    Is there any known cause for this? Is it neurological? There doesn’t appear to be anything else wrong with him. He looks completely fine. I know there’s some debate about angels and copper, but after reading up on it it seems the consensus is that they’re generally fine. Should I get him out of the copper ASAP?

     

  2. Aardvark1134

    Aardvark1134 Active Member

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    I thought you were never supposed to expose a flame angel to copper?

    From liveaquaria
    "The Flame Angel is very sensitive to elevated levels of copper, and should never be exposed to levels near or above 0.15 ppm."
     
  3. SoggyNW

    SoggyNW Member

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    I'm pretty sure I've read in several places that flame angels and copper do not mix.
     
  4. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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  5. SeaJay

    SeaJay Active Member

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  6. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    There is some speculation that exposure to copper CAN cause some neurological issues in fish, any fish... not just angels. I’m waiting on the experts to chime in, I know they’ve just put quite a few flames through QT so hopefully they have some insight.

    It does appear neurological though. Besides transferring him out of copper to another sterile tank, turning down lights, and leaving him be... nothing you can really do but wait and see :(
     
  7. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    I've treated tons of dwarf angels at therapeutic copper levels and don't find them any more sensitive than any other fish.
     
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  8. SeaJay

    SeaJay Active Member

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    I read your experience in other posts. That combined with the chart is why I decided to go ahead with copper treatment.

    ACDE843A-E69F-4662-B388-6A22C4864608.png
     
  9. SeaJay

    SeaJay Active Member

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    I think I’ll take him out. Then I’ll just wait and see what happens and best case, figure out how to get him into dt without finishing a full therapeutic copper regimen. Worst case, well, I think we all know what that is...

    I’ve tried a couple different vets near me and haven’t been able to get my hands on any cp.
     
  10. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    If he’s been in copper for at least 14 days, as long as you transfer him to another sterile tank without lowering copper in the current one... he should be good, as far as ich and velvet are concerned.
     
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  11. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I’ve not personally had any issue with angels in copper either, FWIW. I think if it does have something to do with copper, it’s a rare occurrence.

    It could have just been a freak injury also. Maybe spooked himself into something hard, more common with wrasses from trying to torpedo out of a covered tank... but can happen to any fish.
     
  12. SeaJay

    SeaJay Active Member

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    Yes. I’ve lost two gobies that way. They are relentless in their escape attempts.
     
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  13. SeaJay

    SeaJay Active Member

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    I think that’s what I’ll do. I’m on day 23 of therapeutic levels.
     
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  14. William DeCoursey

    William DeCoursey Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    good luck.. wishing the best for you and your fish. Maybe he's just going stir crazy
     
  15. rkpetersen

    rkpetersen walked the sand with the crustaceans R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Partner Member 2019 Controller Advisor

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    There's another thread today or yesterday with a purple tang that's acting the same way. :(
    Hope they're not from the same source.
     
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  16. SeaJay

    SeaJay Active Member

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    Mine came from a lfs in Atlanta. Not sure where they get their fish from, but generally I’ve had good luck with them.

    He’s now at the surface gasping for air. I think maybe he’s just exhausted from running in circles. Unfortunately I believe I’ll wake up to find him stuck to the filter intake or Wavemaker.
     
  17. SeaJay

    SeaJay Active Member

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    He didn’t make it through the night.

    Thanks for the input. I guess I really just wanted to make sure it wasn’t something I could have prevented. My qt protocol is pretty solid these days.
     
  18. ngoodermuth

    ngoodermuth Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Reef Tank 365 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I’m sorry for your loss, it happens sometimes despite our best efforts :(
     
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  19. SoggyNW

    SoggyNW Member

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    This
    It sucks but this is the exact purpose of the QT. Better the one fish than your entire tank.
     
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