Flame angel swimming in circles.

SeaJay

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This guy is in quarantine. Treated for two weeks with prazipro and then a week ramping up to 2.0 copper power where he has now been for a little over two weeks. Everything has been fine until today I come home to find him swimming in circles non stop and didn’t eat for the first time.

Is there any known cause for this? Is it neurological? There doesn’t appear to be anything else wrong with him. He looks completely fine. I know there’s some debate about angels and copper, but after reading up on it it seems the consensus is that they’re generally fine. Should I get him out of the copper ASAP?

 

Aardvark1134

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I thought you were never supposed to expose a flame angel to copper?

From liveaquaria
"The Flame Angel is very sensitive to elevated levels of copper, and should never be exposed to levels near or above 0.15 ppm."
 

SoggyNW

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I'm pretty sure I've read in several places that flame angels and copper do not mix.
 

ngoodermuth

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There is some speculation that exposure to copper CAN cause some neurological issues in fish, any fish... not just angels. I’m waiting on the experts to chime in, I know they’ve just put quite a few flames through QT so hopefully they have some insight.

It does appear neurological though. Besides transferring him out of copper to another sterile tank, turning down lights, and leaving him be... nothing you can really do but wait and see :(
 

HotRocks

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I've treated tons of dwarf angels at therapeutic copper levels and don't find them any more sensitive than any other fish.
 
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SeaJay

SeaJay

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I've treated tons of dwarf angels at therapeutic copper levels and don't find them any more sensitive than any other fish.
I read your experience in other posts. That combined with the chart is why I decided to go ahead with copper treatment.

ACDE843A-E69F-4662-B388-6A22C4864608.png
 
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SeaJay

SeaJay

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There is some speculation that exposure to copper CAN cause some neurological issues in fish, any fish... not just angels. I’m waiting on the experts to chime in, I know they’ve just put quite a few flames through QT so hopefully they have some insight.

It does appear neurological though. Besides transferring him out of copper to another sterile tank, turning down lights, and leaving him be... nothing you can really do but wait and see :(
I think I’ll take him out. Then I’ll just wait and see what happens and best case, figure out how to get him into dt without finishing a full therapeutic copper regimen. Worst case, well, I think we all know what that is...

I’ve tried a couple different vets near me and haven’t been able to get my hands on any cp.
 

ngoodermuth

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If he’s been in copper for at least 14 days, as long as you transfer him to another sterile tank without lowering copper in the current one... he should be good, as far as ich and velvet are concerned.
 

ngoodermuth

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I read your experience in other posts. That combined with the chart is why I decided to go ahead with copper treatment.

ACDE843A-E69F-4662-B388-6A22C4864608.png
I’ve not personally had any issue with angels in copper either, FWIW. I think if it does have something to do with copper, it’s a rare occurrence.

It could have just been a freak injury also. Maybe spooked himself into something hard, more common with wrasses from trying to torpedo out of a covered tank... but can happen to any fish.
 
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SeaJay

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I’ve not personally had any issue with angels in copper either, FWIW. I think if it does have something to do with copper, it’s a rare occurrence.

It could have just been a freak injury also. Maybe spooked himself into something hard, more common with wrasses from trying to torpedo out of a covered tank... but can happen to any fish.
Yes. I’ve lost two gobies that way. They are relentless in their escape attempts.
 
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If he’s been in copper for at least 14 days, as long as you transfer him to another sterile tank without lowering copper in the current one... he should be good, as far as ich and velvet are concerned.
I think that’s what I’ll do. I’m on day 23 of therapeutic levels.
 

William DeCoursey

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good luck.. wishing the best for you and your fish. Maybe he's just going stir crazy
 

rkpetersen

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There's another thread today or yesterday with a purple tang that's acting the same way. :(
Hope they're not from the same source.
 
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SeaJay

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There's another thread today or yesterday with a purple tang that's acting the same way. :(
Hope they're not from the same source.
Mine came from a lfs in Atlanta. Not sure where they get their fish from, but generally I’ve had good luck with them.

He’s now at the surface gasping for air. I think maybe he’s just exhausted from running in circles. Unfortunately I believe I’ll wake up to find him stuck to the filter intake or Wavemaker.
 
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SeaJay

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He didn’t make it through the night.

Thanks for the input. I guess I really just wanted to make sure it wasn’t something I could have prevented. My qt protocol is pretty solid these days.
 

ngoodermuth

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He didn’t make it through the night.

Thanks for the input. I guess I really just wanted to make sure it wasn’t something I could have prevented. My qt protocol is pretty solid these days.
I’m sorry for your loss, it happens sometimes despite our best efforts :(
 

SoggyNW

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He didn’t make it through the night.

Thanks for the input. I guess I really just wanted to make sure it wasn’t something I could have prevented. My qt protocol is pretty solid these days.
It sucks but this is the exact purpose of the QT. Better the one fish than your entire tank.
 

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