For you that aren’t on GHLs Facebook group: A request for an ION D video

[Gaël]

First it was manufacturing supply issue then it was a design issue or probe issue so they were redesigning the unit then the problem became a patent issue.

GHL has never said there was a design, sensor or patent issues, it was always about supply issues, please stop rewriting history your way ...

I have been doing this stuff longer than Matthias so I kind of know whats involved in this kind of project and I know from having being burned by past suppliers how to smell crap in the electronic manufacturing world from a mile away.

What is this strange way of talking about the Managing Director and Head of Development of GHL, Mr. Groß is not alone at GHL there is a team with him.

Whenever a company cannot demonstrate a single sample of a product it's always a bad sign!
I think that Vinny has video of a unit working but I have no idea at this point why they refuse to show it. I know it's not a Patent issue so there must be some other reason.

The problem we are having is that GHL has been giving us inconsistent information. The main issue has not been the actual release of the unit. We have been asking them for a video of a unit in operation and working and had been promised one by the end of September. It is now the end of October and GHL is telling us about Patent issues.

Again, there is no patent issue preventing the release of IOND but only the need for the product to be patented before the video publicly revealing the technical details in order to avoid a copy of the ion measurment process by competitors.

I think you should remember that we are all doing GHL a courtesy by keeping this thread in the GHL section of the forum. If this was in the General Equipment or Controllers section it would get a lot more views than in here. Also it's really bad form to threaten customers with censorship when you already have their money.

I am not threatening anyone and I do not have authority for that, I just note that GHL no longer intervenes on this topic, no doubt given the turn taken by certain comments and that this is a shame for this forum. So taking them down again and again by interpreting things in a way that is not reality will not help.

So I say it again one last time (because I am also starting to tire), please come back to the subject of this topic which is the video of the IOND running and therefore wait patiently for the patent to be validated and the video disclosed: )

For the rest, we just have to wait for GHL's announcement of the start of deliveries in December, January or February as announced.

Let's stay constructive and positive

Gael

 

[siggy]

Siggy, this is somewhat different. Neptune didn't take hundreds of thousands of dollars in pre-order sales on the back of a ready product just waiting for units to be built and then a year later advise they still don't have a working product. Remember, this is the 5th revision of a promised release date with money in hand.

I was offered a pre order discount but after the Neptune drama I passed.
So is it worth the discount? The drama qweens think so
A year from now you will will be ion masters

 

[Lasse]

Also it's really bad form to threaten customers with censorship when you already have their money.

Who had threaten customers with censorship?

Hi Lasse
The problem we are having is that GHL has been giving us inconsistent information. The main issue has not been the actual release of the unit. We have been asking them for a video of a unit in operation and working and had been promised one by the end of September. It is now the end of October and GHL is telling us about Patent issues.

Yes but from that to writing long post that aim to have the reader to believe that it is a fake and they do not have a working unit is far up in the heaven of conspirations theories you can come IMO. That people that have ordered things and feel sorry because it had been postponed once again - that I can understand but that people not even own GHL equipments and probably not even have planned to buy the unit vomit bile over them (a swedish expression) page up and page down I can´t understand or accept. It smells negative marketing all over the Atlantic and it is not so common in Europe - we react rather hard on this way of debating. Do not misunderstand me now, you canceled your order 6 months ago - if I don´t get it wrong - at least you have had interest in the equipment and I understand that you are frustrated but some participants in this thread seems to be fishing in trouble waters - IMO.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[robbyg]

GHL has never said there was a design, sensor or patent issues, it was always about supply issues, please stop rewriting history your way ...

What are you talking about! This whole thread is about the Video and all you guys have been saying is that there is a Patent issue that prevents you from showing the Video. The lack of the PROMISED video and your reasons as to why are what got this argument going. Please explain to me what could be shown during a IonD video that could possibly help a competitor bypass a Patent that should be pending anyway.

What is this strange way of talking about the Managing Director and Head of Development of GHL, Mr. Groß is not alone at GHL there is a team with him.

And so what does a Team have to do with this? I have been a part of large teams and I have lead teams of engineers. The team does not dictate policy, it's the managers and ultimetly the owners that dictate the statements from the company.[/QUOTE]

Again, there is no patent issue preventing the release of IOND but only the need for the product to be patented before the video publicly revealing the technical details in order to avoid a copy of the ion measurment process by competitors.

Once again please explain how a video of the exterior of the unit and dosing pumps turning can compromise a Patent. You do understand what is involved with a Patent, right?

I am not threatening anyone and I do not have authority for that, I just note that GHL no longer intervenes on this topic, no doubt given the turn taken by certain comments and that this is a shame for this forum. So taking them down again and again by interpreting things in a way that is not reality will not help.

You just posted that is one member did not watch what he was saying that his post would be closed again like they were on Facebook. We don't know who you are so when you make statements like that it suggests to me that your possibly attached to GHL in some way.

For the rest, we just have to wait for GHL's announcement of the start of deliveries in December, January or February as announced.

And what will you tell people in January and February if it's delayed again?

 

[Lasse]

You regret that the comments were closed on the facebook post, it would be a shame if the same would happen here.
Let's stay constructive and positive

You just posted that is one member did not watch what he was saying that his post would be closed again like they were on Facebook. We don't know who you are so when you make statements like that it suggests to me that your possible attached to GHL in some way.

Sorry @robbyg but IMO - you reading the bible like the devil does - I can´t see any threat here.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[robbyg]

Sorry @robbyg but IMO - you reading the bible like the devil does - I can´t see any threat here.

Sincerely Lasse

Well Lasse we will have to just have to disagree on that one. I see it as someone thinking this is the GHL section of the forum therefore they can ask R2R to remove posts or close threads. This has happened on many occasions before. I have had several of my own posts suddenly disappear off of this forum and no reason was given.

 

[MabuyaQ]

Not an expert on patent law, besides that things get expensive if you get in an infringement scenario, but without any of us knowing the contents of the video that is going to be released in about two weeks I don't think anyone, except for GHL, can judge to what extend the material is 'safe' to publish. I do know that being a German company GHL wants to be absolutely safe to absolutely prevent the risk of becoming sorry. Can't blame them for that given the investment involved in developing a niche product like this (for a niche market).

 

[Matt Peacock]

You regret that the comments were closed on the facebook post, it would be a shame if the same would happen here.
Let's stay constructive and positive

A discussion forum (here, on Facebook, or at the GHL site) which only tolerates positive commentary is no discussion at all. A lot of what I have read on this thread and is being treated as criticism has really just been fair-minded and balanced commentary - see for example @r21's comments. Recognising the validity of those rather mild posts can be a quicker route to improvement than accepting only platitudes. You say "You are assuming a lot, probably too much ... what tells you that these beta field tests were not long planned and postponed too?". That is to my mind suggestive of the issue; the content of a singular communication emanating from GHL has caused different people's minds to go off in different directions. Ideally a company would want the majority of people to absorb a roughly consistent message from a communication. What this thread and posts elsewhere suggest is almost no consensus, on even elementary points.

If they say that they have shot a video in september but will not get it publish yet - I trust that statement.

I agree. I have no concern as to the honesty and integrity of GHL or those in control of it. Quite the opposite (and anyone can view my previous posts on the prior round of ION Director argument). To my mind, this is simply a communication issue. This is a shame to me because complaints about GHL's communications with its customers far outweigh complaints about its products, and that has been the case for a long time. The human element of communication means people's posts can become far more vitriolic when it comes to how (they consider) they have been dealt with, drowing out the often anodyne underlying issue itself. It really would be good if GHL could just hit this 'customer approach' nail on the head once and for all, and move on from it.

Yes but from that to writing long post that aim to have the reader to believe that it is a fake and they do not have a working unit is far up in the heaven of conspirations theories you can come IMO.

Again, I agree. As far as I can recall, GHL has never deliberately misled or exaggerated as to the capabilities of its products. It would be remarkable for it to have suddenly taken to lying, and then to take that lie to such an extreme. I have (briefly) met Mathias and this would be diametrically opposite to how he conducted himself then, and has done for decades. I do however accept a broader interpretation of certain of @robbyg's points - last time round a lot of people, including me, doubted him due to his excitable articulation but it should be recognised that the thrust of what he predicted has borne out, so I still consider it sensible to consider carefully his present views on the likelihood of any further delay (for those who are concerned by delay, which I recognise you are not). If I were a betting man (I am!), I would guess that actually GHL have had the post-lockdown ION Director up and running for some time, it does use one less dosing head and less reagent than the pre-lockdown ION Director design, maybe has some other small refinements which we would not otherwise have got, and they are now reading criticism online which they feel bruised by because they know the truth of the matter and the work that has gone into the product.

 

[r21]

Any update on patent that is preventing you showing video? @Vinny@GHLUSA

 

[CEReefer]

Not sure what’s worst waiting for this or for Nevada to finish counting..

 

[9975]

Be patient as it will be out by the end of fall....2021

 

[r21]

I’ll try again with a perfectly reasonable polite question, @Vinny@GHLUSA can I as a paying customer with an ion director on pre order please get an update on the patent that is holding up the video?

 

[9975]

It's amazing how loud crickets are....

 

[r21]

I’ll try again with a perfectly reasonable polite question, @Vinny@GHLUSA can I as a paying customer with an ion director on pre order please get an update on the patent that is holding up the video?

So absolutely no response at all, it’s quite frankly rude and arrogant. It costs absolutely nothing to respond, one line update is all I’m looking for, something that acknowledges the fact I’ve even asked a reasonable question and you provide a reasonable response. GHL are an absolute joke and I’ll be cancelling the pre order tomorrow when the uk wakes up, not that it will bother GHL losing a single customer but I’m afraid I can’t invest in a product from a company that shows such disdain to their customers

 

[CEReefer]

They basically run a kickstarter without having to pay kickstarter’s fees.. didn’t even have the product beta-tested.. unbelievable..

 

[robbyg]

I would be a little more patient with Vinny.
That request was made on a Friday so it’s unlikely that Mathias read the request until Monday. So most likely we will get an answer by Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

[r21]

I would be a little more patient with Vinny.
That request was made on a Friday so it’s unlikely that Mathias read the request until Monday. So most likely we will get an answer by Tuesday or Wednesday.

ok fair enough lets see if any response by tomorrow evening

 

[r21]

So @Vinny@GHLUSA you have responded to a question about the ion director in another thread but have ignored this one. I can only conclude you have been instructed by GHL not to respond to anything regarding delivery or patents which is GHLs prerogative, however what isnt acceptable is the complete lack of acknowledgment to a perfectly fair question. You and your company are a disgrace and you should be ashamed of how you are dealing with this ion director debacle

 

[Herbster]

So @Vinny@GHLUSA you have responded to a question about the ion director in another thread but have ignored this one. I can only conclude you have been instructed by GHL not to respond to anything regarding delivery or patents which is GHLs prerogative, however what isnt acceptable is the complete lack of acknowledgment to a perfectly fair question. You and your company are a disgrace and you should be ashamed of how you are dealing with this ion director debacle

That is way out of order. With that attitude, if you were my customer I would buy back the equipment I sold you and tell you where to go.

 

[r21]

That is way out of order. With that attitude, if you were my customer I would buy back the equipment I sold you and tell you where to go.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion as am I and in my opinion they have acted disgracefully, I’d be more than happy for them to refund me for the equipment I’ve purchased