Jimmeh lee
Active Member
Did you use a diffuser? That 334 reading I posted was with one on, prior to adding it the reading was much, much lower. Around a third. From literally wrapping paper over the cameras.
Free PAR meter? Photone App.
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Devaji
5000 Club Member
let us know how it goes man. quite curious myself. not sure I can convince the other half to let me use here iphone in the tank tho...
Gho5t
Active Member
Ok, so I calibrated the app and dunked the phone. Out of the water it seems stable and repeatable within 10 PAR or so. Every now and then I would get a wild reading, but would just remove the phone and put it back under the test condition and it would come back to the expected value.
Now to the tank... The ziplock bag that I used I think caused more problems then good, so much so I almost just dunked the phone in the tank. I've actually put my phone underwater before so I wasn't too worried, but I didn't go that far. The plastic bag kept triggering the HOLD feature on the app so it wouldn't update the reading. I would have to take the phone back out of the water and move the bag around for it to go live again. That was probably the biggest pain of the process.
As for readings.... I have a Radion XR30 Blue mounted 7 inches above a 30x30x24 cube in the center running at 50% intensity on the AB+ preset. At a depth of 8 inches directly under the light I had reading that ranged from 250-410. At the far corner bottom of the tank I had readings of 170-250. So I'd like to think that the low readings were the "correct" reading and that the plastic bag may have caused some abnormalities but who knows. If that's a ballpark reading, that's a pretty big ballpark. To my eye, I think the reading from the app is hot, but I can't be sure till I actually pick up a PAR meter.
This got me thinking... are there known models of light dispersion for these lighting fixtures? I would assume light transmission/falloff through air/water would be a constant... like an XR30 at 10" above the water at 100% intensity would yield X at a depth of Y. In computer graphics, and I'm sure other disciplines, we use IES files which model the physical light distribution and falloff of practical lights. I would love to see something similar for reef lights.
Now to the tank... The ziplock bag that I used I think caused more problems then good, so much so I almost just dunked the phone in the tank. I've actually put my phone underwater before so I wasn't too worried, but I didn't go that far. The plastic bag kept triggering the HOLD feature on the app so it wouldn't update the reading. I would have to take the phone back out of the water and move the bag around for it to go live again. That was probably the biggest pain of the process.
As for readings.... I have a Radion XR30 Blue mounted 7 inches above a 30x30x24 cube in the center running at 50% intensity on the AB+ preset. At a depth of 8 inches directly under the light I had reading that ranged from 250-410. At the far corner bottom of the tank I had readings of 170-250. So I'd like to think that the low readings were the "correct" reading and that the plastic bag may have caused some abnormalities but who knows. If that's a ballpark reading, that's a pretty big ballpark. To my eye, I think the reading from the app is hot, but I can't be sure till I actually pick up a PAR meter.
This got me thinking... are there known models of light dispersion for these lighting fixtures? I would assume light transmission/falloff through air/water would be a constant... like an XR30 at 10" above the water at 100% intensity would yield X at a depth of Y. In computer graphics, and I'm sure other disciplines, we use IES files which model the physical light distribution and falloff of practical lights. I would love to see something similar for reef lights.
I have just watched a Sam Parker on youtube doing a comparison with Seneye ,and 2 apogee units and the seneye was reading double what the apogees so it proves to me the seneye is not good .Im going to give this a go just made a holder stick and ordered a iphone 7 arrives tomoz .
NeonRabbit221B
2500 Club Member
Yeah I followed the guide and reread the thing a few times to make sure I wasnt losing my mind. Used standard computer paper. I can try again this weekend when I have more time on my hand, maybe with a different bag or something.
Jonreefer
Valuable Member
this was the LUX meter I used when I did thisYes I used a ziplock bag. I will gladly risk 18 dollars in the bag but not my phone with saltwater. red are from the Apogee and the green are this particular 18 dollar LUX meter I posted above . Take care. Photo credit and source is J. Duboy
Rent or Borrow a PAR meter and im sure you can get the same results with any LUX meter
Lux Meter
NeonRabbit221B
2500 Club Member
I will say that once I 3D printed a wand/holder that my readings stabilized dramatically. It is very sensitive to tilt and shadowing so holding it was a non-option. I can try zip tying the phone to the holder but the fact I was 120 par off doesn't account for this.
I guess BRS, who also did a comparison, and myself are just liars then...
I'd personally love to see a few side by side readings for comparison. Thanks.
BoxKing
Active Member
With respect for BRS, bc I think they do a bang up job with reviewing products and all.. but do you actually think they took out a Seneye right out of the box without making sure that unit would perform as advertised prior to making the video?! If in some rare case, all of the Seneye units are calibrated within a tolerable range, then the finger pointing would land to user error; if this is the case, the errors made with a cell phone while held under water will only result in an outcome of this app failing users more than the Seneye.
The idea of the app sounded great for a hot minute, but Ill be trusting a tried and true PAR meter over a homemade diffuser and zip lock bag.
The idea of the app sounded great for a hot minute, but Ill be trusting a tried and true PAR meter over a homemade diffuser and zip lock bag.
NeonRabbit221B
2500 Club Member
Having used the Seneye for a little less than a month now I can atleast say that they are not very accurately calibrated. Ammonia and pH readings are not reacting to controlled dosing. Makes sense that a true Par meter wouldn't have as much error... but BRS also posted par readings to bench mark against. Seneye was reading within 5% of their established PAR readings for 2 AI Primes running AB+ over a 40 breeder. A trusted Par meter is not needed as long as a reference exists. A coral simply doesn't care about a variation of 10 Par.
I am confident we can get this app working for 90% of users, just a matter of the details and some extra time in my day.
Neon , can you tell me how you calibrated it for underwater use. step 1 / insert pseudo ref number ( what number did you use or was it without bag under afixed light source . 2/ put it in the bag and repeat the reading . step3 / line 2 measurement x 1.23( or similar) entered in step 3. thanks
Gho5t
Active Member
I used the Photone app with the LED Full Spectrum light setting.
Gho5t
Active Member
Looking back at the process of using the phone in the water and reading other comments, I agree that using a selfie stick would probably be the best method rather than hand holding. Additionally, the phones can be placed in water, so I would opt to tape some type of plastic diffusion material, smoked white plastic or other similar filter, directly to the phone and forego the plastic bag. If the bag didn't keep causing the app to go into HOLD mode and freeze the reading the bag would probably be fine. I looked for an option to turn off the HOLD feature but I don't believe it exists.
I've went ahead and rented a MQ-510 PAR meter from BRS. I was planning on doing it anyways so I'll measure out my tank and then go back for a 2nd try with a potentially improved method with the app this weekend.
I've went ahead and rented a MQ-510 PAR meter from BRS. I was planning on doing it anyways so I'll measure out my tank and then go back for a 2nd try with a potentially improved method with the app this weekend.
BoxKing
Active Member
How did you go about renting this unit when they discontinued the rental option?
NeonRabbit221B
2500 Club Member
For the second iteration of calibrations the pseudo ref number is only inputed to get to the second screen. I think I used 160 and then it takes the detected reading. Multiply it by 1.32 then swipe back to the first screen and change the number from 160 to the new calculated number.
Gho5t
Active Member
The rentals are not discontinued, they just changed the way they do them. I actually called BRS and instead of it being just a rental fee upfront, you have to pay the full price, think of it as a deposit, and then you can use it and you have 60 days to return it. When you're done with the unit, you call them and they'll give you an RMA number to send it back and take a $69.99 "Restocking fee" (rental fee).
On the site it's listed as the "Wet Tested" meter here:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/wet-tested-mq-510-full-spectrum-underwater-led-par-meter-apogee.html
greetl01
Active Member
I bought this about 2 weeks ago and haven’t used it bc I couldn’t figure out how to get to the sand bed. Hadn’t thought of a plastic bag...I’ll post results if I try it.
*edit*
so I tried the bag. Put the phone in the bag and lowered it into the water up to the seal to vacuum seal it. Then zipped it, and taped the plastic bag with painters tape. Not a drop got in. I’m reading 70 par at the top of my rocks. Yikes....time to lower my lights
*edit*
so I tried the bag. Put the phone in the bag and lowered it into the water up to the seal to vacuum seal it. Then zipped it, and taped the plastic bag with painters tape. Not a drop got in. I’m reading 70 par at the top of my rocks. Yikes....time to lower my lights
Last edited:
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