Frogspawn Flaking?

Shy519 · Mar 4, 2019

This used to happen when my tank was much younger, but I notice that the green tips are flaking off my Frogspawn colony and floating around the tank in the current. Honestly it seems that the growth has been stunted as well. I also feel that the hermit crabs are eating the skeleton. They seem to take naps in the branches but there are craters left where they would "nap". Is there low calcium in the tank? It's almost 5 years old this year. I can attach a picture if needed.
Parameters are as follows:

Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrate 10ppm
Nitrite 0.5ppm
pH 8
Phosphate 1.0ppm
Calcium 320
dKH 9
Magnesium 1320
Temp: 75°F

K-Philly · Mar 4, 2019

Shy519 said:
This used to happen when my tank was much younger, but I notice that the green tips are flaking off my Frogspawn colony and floating around the tank in the current. Honestly it seems that the growth has been stunted as well. I also feel that the hermit crabs are eating the skeleton. They seem to take naps in the branches but there are craters left where they would "nap". Is there low calcium in the tank? It's almost 5 years old this year. I can attach a picture if needed.
Parameters are as follows:

Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrate 10ppm
Nitrite 0.5ppm
pH 8
Phosphate 1.0ppm
Calcium 320
dKH 9
Magnesium 1320
Temp: 75°F

Hey, maybe I can help! Two things right of the bat that I can tell you that pose a problem to all living organisms in your tank is the presence of Ammonia and Nitrite. Both very toxic, even in slight amounts. When your tank was "young," you would have noticed this before and during your cycle. Another thing, your calcium looks like it could be just below the recommended threshold (350ppm) Calcium and dKH are inversely related. So as calcium drops, dKH will rise. You'll continue to see that dKH rise as calcium drops further, thus the pH will continue to creep up. Because higher pH means more alkaline water.

We need to know if your frogspawn is getting appropriate lighting and water flow. If not, this would explain why amonnia and nitrite have creeped in, because your frogspawn are decomposing. Which is evident, and would also explain why the hermits are taking an interest to it. I would get those calcium levels up for sure. So, what lighting are you using?

Shy519 · Mar 4, 2019

LED lighting system. DIY from the seller.so I can't say a specific name. Four rows of 8 lights. 16 white 16 black. Moon lights run at night.

K-Philly · Mar 4, 2019

Shy519 said:
LED lighting system. DIY from the seller.so I can't say a specific name. Four rows of 8 lights. 16 white 16 black. Moon lights run at night.

Without PAR readings, this may prove slightly difficulty. Did they provide that for you? If not, are you housing any other corals? If so, what are they and what are their placements in relativity to your frogspawns location?

Shy519 · Mar 4, 2019

No PAR readings were given. The closest coral to the torch is the hammer and they've been together for about a year without issue. Both are placed on the bottom in the substrate. I have many other corals in the tank but none are nearly as close as the hammer.The tank is approximately 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 feet. I have the frogspawn and the torch on one side of the rock work while the torch colony is on the other side.

K-Philly · Mar 4, 2019

Interesting, when was your last water change and did any other corals get introduced to a time relative to the frogspawn? We definitely need to get your calcium up. I have found other sources that claim 380ppm needs to be the minimum threshold. You're looking at roughly 30 to 50ppm below the accepted minimum threshold of calcium. Do any other corals show symptoms of bleaching?

K-Philly · Mar 5, 2019

Here's my current and total observation.

Theory one: Possible problem with the quality of water. Frogspawn may be sensitive to it. It is 5 years old though, so you have been doing routine maintenance and tending to it. However, life makes us busy and things happen. A swing in parameters could have "shocked" it and caused it to die. This would explain the detection of the ammonia and nitrites. There have been accounts of hermits eating corals before, but it has mainly been when the coral was deceased and decaying. After 5 years of being in the tank, this would be the more sensible explanation of why they are eating it now. If they were preying upon it, seems to me they would have already attacked it.

Theory two: We have a possible invertebrate predator or microbial pathogen present. I would need to know what your stockings are as far as invertebrate and crustaceans go. Two common predators would be camel shrimp and emerald crabs. Camel shrimp would be more likely, than emerald crabs.

I'm holding on to the idea of a microbial pathogen for now, until we get some other factors out of the way. Also, I use the process of elimination quite frequently, I do apologize if I have offended you by asking questions that may have seemed like I am challenging your intelligence as a reefer. I know you have at least 5 years in the hobby, therefore you have quite a bit of experience already.

McFly · Mar 5, 2019

My fish rip off the green frogspawn tips all the time. I see them floating around the tank at least once a week and shake my head. My colony is huge, so I just let it be. Any tangs in the tank that like to nip your frogspawn?

Shy519 · Mar 5, 2019

McFly said:
My fish rip off the green frogspawn tips all the time. I see them floating around the tank at least once a week and shake my head. My colony is huge, so I just let it be. Any tangs in the tank that like to nip your frogspawn?

I don't have any tangs, the tank is only 29 gallons and I figure its way to small to house even a baby tang. My livestock includes red leg hermits, porcelain crab, electric blue damsel, bicolor blenny, orange spot goby, tiger pistol shrimp, 2 rock nems, 4 sexy shrimp, three turbo snails, and a handful of nassarius snails. I don't ever see any actual damage to the flesh of the frogspawn but I do know that the tips are definitely coming from the frogspawn. Nothing else in the tank has green tips like it does.

Shy519 · Mar 5, 2019

K-Philly said:
Here's my current and total observation.

Theory one: Possible problem with the quality of water. Frogspawn may be sensitive to it. It is 5 years old though, so you have been doing routine maintenance and tending to it. However, life makes us busy and things happen. A swing in parameters could have "shocked" it and caused it to die. This would explain the detection of the ammonia and nitrites. There have been accounts of hermits eating corals before, but it has mainly been when the coral was deceased and decaying. After 5 years of being in the tank, this would be the more sensible explanation of why they are eating it now. If they were preying upon it, seems to me they would have already attacked it.

Theory two: We have a possible invertebrate predator or microbial pathogen present. I would need to know what your stockings are as far as invertebrate and crustaceans go. Two common predators would be camel shrimp and emerald crabs. Camel shrimp would be more likely, than emerald crabs.

I'm holding on to the idea of a microbial pathogen for now, until we get some other factors out of the way. Also, I use the process of elimination quite frequently, I do apologize if I have offended you by asking questions that may have seemed like I am challenging your intelligence as a reefer. I know you have at least 5 years in the hobby, therefore you have quite a bit of experience already.

No, I completely understand your questions. I view owning a reef tank as a never ending learning experience. I have been in this hobby for years now and I still have yet to learn it all. Never bad to learn anything, even if it should be common knowledge. The livestock of the tank include several red leg hermits, a porcelain crab, an electric blue damsel, a bicolor blenny, an orange spot goby, a tiger pistol shrimp, 2 rock nems, 4 sexy shrimp, three turbo snails, and a handful of nassarius snails

K-Philly · Mar 5, 2019

Shy519 said:
No, I completely understand your questions. I view owning a reef tank as a never ending learning experience. I have been in this hobby for years now and I still have yet to learn it all. Never bad to learn anything, even if it should be common knowledge. The livestock of the tank include several red leg hermits, a porcelain crab, an electric blue damsel, a bicolor blenny, an orange spot goby, a tiger pistol shrimp, 2 rock nems, 4 sexy shrimp, three turbo snails, and a handful of nassarius snails

Thank you for being understanding, and I think one of your 4 sexy shrimps could be the culprit. They have been to know to feed upon certain corals, especially corals with tentacles, when they are not well fed. They have also been known to nip or eat the ends of the anemone they host. I just think one of the 4 might have just took an opportunity here.

Shy519 · Mar 7, 2019

K-Philly said:
Thank you for being understanding, and I think one of your 4 sexy shrimps could be the culprit. They have been to know to feed upon certain corals, especially corals with tentacles, when they are not well fed. They have also been known to nip or eat the ends of the anemone they host. I just think one of the 4 might have just took an opportunity here.

Ah, yeah that makes a whole load of sense. Thank you so much, I'll have to keep an eye on them and try to feed them directly now.