Frogspawn or Cristata Torch? ID please.

[thamnasteroid]

I would say yours looks more like the top one than the bottom in the skeleton pics above. Yours all poofed up dosnt quite look like the pic in post 54 the top pic you can clearly see the difference if that is how it looks all the time not just slightly po'd atm. Maybe some unknown high bred? How about a Framtata?

wouldn't be a hybrid; cristata and hammers are from different genera, so they wouldn't hybridize

Looks same to me
Want me to measure the spacing ?

the top photo has more exsert septa; the septa in your photo are not as exsert.

 

[VintageReefer]

wouldn't be a hybrid; cristata and hammers are from different genera, so they wouldn't hybridize

This was simply a joke. We were not going to call it a framtata

the top photo has more exert septa; the septa in your photo are not as exert.

I think that’s a matter of opinion. There is no definition of how much is needed, you are making your own guidelines based on a photo but the fact that these exist leans towards my favor.

And I’m not sure how much I can trust the opinion of a person who is using the wrong word continuously, even after being corrected.

 

[thamnasteroid]

And I’m not sure how much I can trust the opinion of a person who is using the wrong word continuously, even after being corrected.

The words are very similar, okay? It's hard to change habits; cut me some slack 'ere.

 

[thamnasteroid]

This was simply a joke. We were not going to call it a frI think that’s a matter of opinion. There is no definition of how much is needed, you are making your own guidelines based on a photo but the fact that these exist leans towards my favor

Take a side-profile photo of the corallite when closed up. That is usually a good way to tell septal exsertness. From your top-down photo of it closed up, the amount of septal protrusion is closer to a hammer. The characteristic of exsert septa is not my guidelines, but an actual characteristic used to identify Cristata torches.

 

[twentyleagues]

This was simply a joke. We were not going to call it a framtata

I think that’s a matter of opinion. There is no definition of how much is needed, you are making your own guidelines based on a photo but the fact that these exist leans towards my favor.

And I’m not sure how much I can trust the opinion of a person who is using the wrong word continuously, even after being corrected.

Oh no we are definitely calling it a framtata, now especially. Ill be checking in weekly on how the framtata is doing.

 

[VintageReefer]

Oh no we are definitely calling it a framtata, now especially. Ill be checking in weekly on how the framtata is doing.

You know what I think framtata is a new species. I read about it in coral science weekly

 

[twentyleagues]

wouldn't be a hybrid; cristata and hammers are from different genera, so they wouldn't hybridize

the top photo has more exsert septa; the septa in your photo are not as exsert.

Well see thats where you are wrong. I didnt say hamtata thats sounds like a breakfast food. I said framtata which would indicate a frammer not a hammer which is already a hybrid of a hammer and a frogspawn so its already more comfortable in interspecies mingling. Thus the Framtata is born! yall can thank me later.

 

[VintageReefer]

The characteristic of exsert septa is not my guidelines, but an actual characteristic used to identify Cristata torches.

agreed. But your interpretation of what defines “exsert enough” is up for debate.

Exsert - to cause to pertrude, to push out

There is no clearly defined regulation for how much exsert septa is necessary for a cristata to be classified. No mm guideline or measurement is specified

And in cotw, for hammer coral, ancora, the definition states

Polyps have large tubular tentacles with few or no branchlets but with anchor, hammer or T-shaped tips.

Mine does not have these shape tips, but that is a requirement for a hammer

 

[thamnasteroid]

agreed. But your interpretation of what defines “exsert enough” is up for debate.

Exsert - to cause to pertrude, to push out

There is no clearly defined regulation for how much exsert septa is necessary for a cristata to be classified. No mm guideline or measurement is specified

And in cotw, for hammer coral, ancora, the definition states

Polyps have large tubular tentacles with few or no branchlets but with anchor, hammer or T-shaped tips.

Mine does not have these shape tips, but that is a requirement for a hammer

CotW's descriptions are not law. Just because no guideline stated in CotW doesn't mean the septal protrusion of cristata torches don't fall within a certain range.
Hammers can also get round acrospheres in captivity. Compare:
Credit: Reef Gardener

 

[VintageReefer]

CotW's descriptions are not law. Just because no guideline stated in CotW doesn't mean the septal protrusion of cristata torches don't fall within a certain range.
Hammers can also get round acrospheres in captivity. Compare:
Credit: Reef Gardener

The septa are not as exsert as mine :P

 

[thamnasteroid]

The septa are not as exsert as mine :p

No, that's a hammer; I was showing that to show that hammers can have round acrospheres

 

[VintageReefer]

No, that's a hammer; I was showing that to show that hammers can have round acrospheres

Agreed. So you can’t reference cotw only when it suits your narrative then discredit them when they prove my point.

Conclusion - cotw is not a reliable source and any references by either of us should be disregarded. Information can not be Cherry picked from a unreliable source

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

CotW's descriptions are not law. Just because no guideline stated in CotW doesn't mean the septal protrusion of cristata torches don't fall within a certain range.
Hammers can also get round acrospheres in captivity. Compare:
Credit: Reef Gardener

Those are not really round... not the way torches tips are.

 

[VintageReefer]

I have never seen the green-tentacle-purple-acrosphere color-morph on a torch; this coloration was partially used to infer Euphyllia paraglabrescens's position in Fimbriaphyllia in Luzon et al. (2017), I think.

Never seen green tentacle torch with purple tips?
Allow me to introduce you to exhibit A and B - my two princess peach grails

Not everything is in a textbook

 

[VintageReefer]

Those are not really round... not the way torches tips are.

Agree.

CotW's descriptions are not law. Just because no guideline stated in CotW doesn't mean the septal protrusion of cristata torches don't fall within a certain range.
Hammers can also get round acrospheres in captivity. Compare:
Credit: Reef Gardener

Those acrosphere are elliptical and a known characteristic of euphyllia ancora. My acrosphere are globose

Compare

 

[thamnasteroid]

Never seen green tentacle torch with purple tips?
Allow me to introduce you to exhibit A and B - my two princess peach grails

Not everything is in a textbook

Those are more pink tips than purple. The purple I was referencing was a more blueish purple.

 

[VintageReefer]

Those are more pink tips than purple. The purple I was referencing was a more blueish purple.

In person it’s lavender / purple depending on lighting. Difficult to photograph but thought it was close enough

 

[thamnasteroid]

In person it’s lavender / purple depending on lighting. Difficult to photograph but thought it was close enough

I've seen those torches in person; they're more pink than purple. The purple acrospheres that occur in Fimbriaphyllia is deeper and more blueish.
Credit: Sunnyside Corals

 

[thamnasteroid]

Agreed. So you can’t reference cotw only when it suits your narrative then discredit them when they prove my point.

Conclusion - cotw is not a reliable source and any references by either of us should be disregarded. Information can not be Cherry picked from a unreliable source

CotW is neither fully reliable nor fully unreliable. The reason why Veron did not mention round tentacles occurring in hammers is because it really only occurs in captivity.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I've seen those torches in person; they're more pink than purple. The purple acrospheres that occur in Fimbriaphyllia is deeper and more blueish.
Credit: Sunnyside Corals

And this vendor would NEVER post an enhanced photo... smh