GFCI Outlet poll

Where are you on Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter outlets for your power supply?


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MarcF

MarcF

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Ground fault interrupt circuits and grounding/bonding was invented in the 60's for swimming pools, IIRC. The reason for the invention is too many people we're getting electrocuted to death by various pool equipment, pumps and lights. The problem with electricity is you can't visually tell if something is energized. The other problem is we can't control where the electricity will go through our body. If it goes through your heart to ground you have a higher probability of dying. It takes very little electricity to stop a heart.

As us humans got smarter from experience and analyzing data we learned that a lot of people were also dying from electrocution/fire in wet areas of a home. So we updated the codes to include any circuit within ten feet of water needs to be on a protected circuit. Then we got even smarter as there were still cases of fire and death and I believe the 2020 code will now require just about every circuit have ground fault protection.

So while there may not be a specific code for aquariums, the new code basically will encompass someone who sets up an aquarium in their home. Of course the code enforcement isn't going to force you to get up to code on your old home, but smart people will likely try to do it on their own.

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but you don't need to install the GFCI outlet where your aquarium is plugged in, it just needs to be installed on an outlet on the circuit before the aquarium.

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I wasn’t aware of them in the early 80’s. Doesn’t mean they weren’t invented yet though.
So, a question. If I have a plug-in GFCI adapter and I plug it into any outlet on the circuit- and I don’t plug anything into IT, the entire circuit and everything plugged into it anywhere is ground fault protected?

For the record, my 1 tank is plugged into a 15amp outlet. On the same circuit is the 1580W microwave oven (used only for 1-3 minutes now and then), an LED counter light in the kitchen, and another wall outlet in the hall, not GFCI. Nothing plugged in there. This is how my condo is wired. I’m not going to rewire it for the tank. I can’t.

I calculated all the amperage in the tank (just short of 2 amps with the 200W heater on). That comes to just about 15a because the microwave is 13.2 (because a=W/V right?).
I waited until the heater kicked on and then hit the microwave. It didn’t trip. The good part is I’ll always be right there when I’m using the microwave, so if the breaker breaks, I’m right there.

Am I thinking about this right, you electrical gurus out there?

Edit: oops just realized the 4 overhead kitchen lights (dimmable LEDs) are also on this circuit. Retested with those lights on and it still didn’t trip.
 
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K7BMG

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I wasn’t aware of them in the early 80’s. Doesn’t mean they weren’t invented yet though.
So, a question. If I have a plug-in GFCI adapter and I plug it into any outlet on the circuit- and I don’t plug anything into IT, the entire circuit and everything plugged into it anywhere is ground fault protected?

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

the only things that will be protected will be what ever is plugged in after the GFCI, NOT before.
 

K7BMG

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I am one of those 30 year electricians that is posting in threads.
I dont know if I should have taken that as an insult or a badge of honor.
I will take it as a badge of honor as after 30 years as an electrician wresling with lightening am still above grond and have all my fingers and toes. I respect and understand the invisible white lightning thats always looking for its next victim.

Anyway over the years I have had the pleasure of repairing things that people have done incorectly, some were minor others downright dangerous, but in the end they just did not understand.
 
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MarcF

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I am one of those 30 year electricians that is posting in threads.
I dont know if I should have taken that as an insult or a badge of honor.
If I said anything insulting to you, I apologize, although I have no idea what it was. It’s easy to get ones wires crossed when posting in threads.
 

K7BMG

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If I said anything insulting to you, I apologize, although I have no idea what it was. It’s easy to get ones wires crossed when posting in threads.

No insult taken just had to laugh.
As an electrician I belong to the sarcastic group.
Did not mean to insult you either and apologize if I did.
 

K7BMG

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Here is a question for everyone here on electrical theory.

So why is it that if your Aquarium is being electrified that your livestock dont seem to notice?

But you get zapped when you touch the water.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Here is a question for everyone here on electrical theory.

So why is it that if your Aquarium is being electrified that your livestock dont seem to notice?

But you get zapped when you touch the water.

when you get electrocuted, the electricity must be passing through some part of your body. But marine organisms are likely less conductive then seawater since main ion concentrations in cells are lower, so most current passes through the very conductive seawater all around them rather than mostly through the organisms.
 

K7BMG

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They are part of the conductor.
The saltwater is the conductor.
They are not the bridge between the voltage source and the earths ground.
If that makes it more clear.

A human or other animal can hold a energized conductor and become energized.
They can be in this state for ever without harm.
Touch a grounded conductor or a ground conductor and then your gona get zapped.
 

zalick

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Electrocuted to death from aquarium.

Burned up house from an aquarium electrical strip.


Maybe we don't hear more about aquarium related deaths from posters because..... They're dead.

I want to highlight your post again so people reading this thread don't accidentally miss it. Many people in this thread claim no evidence of aquariasts dying. Just because it's not on Google results doesn't mean it never happens. I doubt most aquarium related electrocution deaths make the news, or get posted online, necessary to be in search results.

The few people in this thread claiming the "tingle" you may feel in the tank is harmless are notably silent regarding your post.
 

willieboy240

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Ive been tossing around the idea of altering my existing outlet to a GFCI before I start my tank. This response definitely helps!
what I do is plug my stuff into 2 different circuit breakers. To split the load. So if one trips the other is still good. Then I run the return on a non-gfi. I suppose if you stick your hand in the tank and feel a small shock / tingle. Then that’s a heads up to start unplugging stuff.
 
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CuzzA

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what I do is plug my stuff into 2 different circuit breakers. To split the load. So if one trips the other is still good. Then I run the return on a non-gfi. I suppose if you stick your hand in the tank and feel a small shock / tingle. Then that’s a heads up to start unplugging stuff.

Why run the return on an unprotected circuit if you're using two circuits? Just put powerheads on one and the return and skimmer on the other. If either outlet becomes defective and trips your tank will survive. If both trip it may save your house or life.

The worry of a GFCI outlet defectively tripping has the same risk to a tank crash as a utility power outage. If you have an automatic battery backup neither scenarios is of concern.
 

Brian_68

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I want to highlight your post again so people reading this thread don't accidentally miss it. Many people in this thread claim no evidence of aquariasts dying. Just because it's not on Google results doesn't mean it never happens. I doubt most aquarium related electrocution deaths make the news, or get posted online, necessary to be in search results.

The few people in this thread claiming the "tingle" you may feel in the tank is harmless are notably silent regarding your post.
My point was keeping aquariums have been very safe over the years GFCI or not. Some everyday risks are probably greater. I use a ground probe for my safety. The same though that are here saying you are crazy for not using a GFCI are probably some of the ones texting or on the phone behind the wheel, going over the speed limit or racing to beat that red light. Yes it is most likely safer with a GFCI and ground probe with some very real trade-offs just like one that is talking on that cell phone driving down the road when those dangers are well known, distracted driving kills many more.
 

zalick

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My point was keeping aquariums have been very safe over the years GFCI or not. Some everyday risks are probably greater. I use a ground probe for my safety. The same though that are here saying you are crazy for not using a GFCI are probably some of the ones texting or on the phone behind the wheel, going over the speed limit or racing to beat that red light. Yes it is most likely safer with a GFCI and ground probe with some very real trade-offs just like one that is talking on that cell phone driving down the road when those dangers are well known, distracted driving kills many more.

Understand what you are saying but that's a false equivalency. This discussion is about whether to use a GFCI or not. It's not about the dangers of driving, flying, sky diving or pole vaulting.

The people who say they don't use one, argue that the probability of tank crash due to GFCi tripping if fairly high and the risks of getting shocked, electrocuted is almost non existent. Some said there are zero examples of a death.

This thread has proven that there is in fact one death (likely many more). I believe the thread has only shown one tank crash as well. The death may (likely) have been prevented with a GFCI. The tank crash certainly could have been prevented with proper backup precautions (not expensive and hundreds of dollars). But if your talking thousands invested in a tank, a few hundred to protect it seem well worth.

People that don't want to use a GFCI are certainly free to not use one and to argue the risk is low. But to argue you can't die or get seriously injured from leaking voltage in your tank is simply not true.
 

Terry Mattson

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what I do is plug my stuff into 2 different circuit breakers. To split the load. So if one trips the other is still good. Then I run the return on a non-gfi. I suppose if you stick your hand in the tank and feel a small shock / tingle. Then that’s a heads up to start unplugging stuff.
Ya, unfortunately I did receive a shock that hurt my arm and hand. As mentioned previously I now have 2 seperate gfi circuits with return pump on one and icecap 3000 on the other. All other equipment split between them. So if one trips then tank has flow and serface agitation. Also have ground probe as noted.
 

willieboy240

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Why run the return on an unprotected circuit if you're using two circuits? Just put powerheads on one and the return and skimmer on the other. If either outlet becomes defective and trips your tank will survive. If both trip it may save your house or life.

The worry of a GFCI outlet defectively tripping has the same risk to a tank crash as a utility power outage. If you have an automatic battery backup neither scenarios is of concern.
Redundancy is the name of the game
 

Terry Mattson

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If for some reason equipment fails on one circuit I will have good tank flow on the other as explained above. I have 2 good quality inline gfi cords, designed to work indoors or outdoors, and with automatic reset pluged into a regular 20 amp socket. I have a third seperate one on my hospital tank.

Screenshot_20200118-223614_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20200118-223214_Chrome.jpg
 

Terry Mattson

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Your setup still doesn't make sense to leave one circuit unprotected. The odds of two GFCI outlets failing at the same time would be highly unlikely.
I understand it is hard to visualize. Let me try. There are two sockets in the wall. Each one I have pluged a gfi extension cord in each socket. The socket itself is not gfi. Then on the protected side I have my equipment pluged in. Any trouble on either gfi circuit due to leaking voltage will shut power off effectively isolating the failed item. And yes all equipment pluged into that gfi will have zero power applied.

The way gfi circuits work is they monitor current on one line Hot usually black wire and compare to the current on the other line, white wire. Any current diference trips the gfi. Like a pump voltage leaking into the tank due to let's say a leaking seal. The current on the hot wire conected to the gfi will be higher than current on the return wire. This is because the pump continues to draw current, let's say 1 amp. So 1 amp is detected by hot wire and return. That is ok but there is now an additional current draw through the tank because the seal failed allowing saltwater to enter the pump's electrical copper winding. The leaking voltage will draw current through my ground probe or other source. Let's say that extra draw is .25 Amps. Now the gfi detects 1.25 on the hot wire and 1 amp on return and the gfi trips. The 2nd gfi will typically not trigger as the current required to operate the equipment on the 2nd gfi is completely seperate from the equipment on the 1st gfi with a failed pump.
 
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