Grounding Probes Worth It?
- Thread starter CoralReefer1019
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Brew12
Electrical Gru
My son puts his hand in my tank. He may be a teenager :eek::mad:, but I still think of him as more than just equipment. The older he gets the more I rethink that.... :rolleyes:
Jason mack
Monti madness
I wouldn’t run my tank without one !
Monkeytank
Active Member
I have one, not to protect anything in my tank, but to protect me.
Monkeytank
Active Member
Great post. Could you explain how the titanium heater works like a ground probe, but other heaters don't? I have had a grounding probe for about 5 years and went to titanium heaters a couple of years ago. I didn't have any idea they had this added benefit.
ReefHog
Well-Known Member
Not sure I buy the titanium heater ground. I use titanium heaters. I was working in my sump and could feel the slight shocking. Plugged in my grounding probe and shock gone. Unplugged it and it was back. Unplugged equipment one by one until I found a bad pump.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
A ground probe is a titanium tube with a ground wire hooked up to it. A titanium heater is a titanium tube with a ground wire hooked up to it with a heating element inside. Glass or ceramic heaters only have a 2 prong plug because there is no conductive outer layer to connect a ground connection to.
If you look at every tool/appliance in your house (that isn't an antique) and you should see one thing in common. If it has a metal housing the plug should have 3 prongs. If it is plastic, it will only have 2. Granted, there are some exceptions for double insulated equipment that has a decorative outer cover....
Brew12
Electrical Gru
If your heater has 3 prongs, which it should, the ground prong should be connected t0 the titanium housing. If its not, your heater has a problem. If it has 2 prongs, I'd love to know the manufacturer.
rkpetersen
walked the sand with the crustaceans
I have seen no issues related to the grounding probe or GFCI with my Apex 2016. I wouldn't expect there to be any, but as all Apex users know, odd things can happen. :)
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I put it in the sump. As long as your return pump is running it will protect both.
I'm an electrical nit-wit, so I don't pretend to understand any of these posts (but thank you all for trying to help me understand).
That admitted, I have to ask ~ with all the emphasis on controllers in our hobby, can a probe (and "module" ?) be designed that connects to a controller and alerts us when it senses that there is an electrical conductivity problem?
TIA...
That admitted, I have to ask ~ with all the emphasis on controllers in our hobby, can a probe (and "module" ?) be designed that connects to a controller and alerts us when it senses that there is an electrical conductivity problem?
TIA...
Brew12
Electrical Gru
It can be designed and tied into a controller, but I am not aware of a product that currently does it. For now, it would have to be a DYI project.
alton
Valuable Member
Everybody has some great post on this subject, the bird on the wire idea works as long as you do not place your hand in your tank. Other wise it is like leaning an aluminum ladder against the wire trying to catch the bird. Also before plugging in that grounding probe you need one of these
I had a friend call me and said he was getting shocked and did not understand why? He had everything plugged into a GFCI and installed a grounding probe? After I checked into it with a meter I found the previous home owner replaced all the receptacles with grounding type except they where not grounded including the GFCI he was using for his tank. Also he did not realize stealth heaters had been recalled!
I found a chart from Jade Learning that showed different levels of amperage and how it can affect people with 1 second of contact:
1 ma (.001 amps) – Perception level and slight tingle
5 ma (.005 amps) – Shock Felt but you should be able to let go
6-30 ma (.005-.03 amps) – Pain Full Shock
50-150 ma (.05-.150 amps) – Death is Possible
1000 ma (1 amp) – Death is likely
Ma = Milli-Amps
The average GFCI Receptacle is set to trip from 4 to 6 ma so it should trip at 4 but will definitely trip at 6, breakers and hospital grade GFCI receptacles trip at 5 ma (remember what was said about 5 ma)
I have always been told and believed that you don’t need a ground for a GFCI to work properly because they trip when there is an imbalance between the ungrounded and grounded circuit (hot and neutral). But with our aquariums it does not work that way because glass is a good insulator therefore there is no path for the imbalance to travel. So the leaking current and voltage just sits in our tanks until till we put our hands in it providing a grounding path. Or the piece of equipment draws enough amperage to trip the 20 amp breaker in the panel. Because the tank is insulated a faulty piece of equipment will use the water in the aquarium as resistance either cooking your tank or even exploding the equipment. The simple test for this is fill up a plastic bucket of water, place the bad piece of equipment in the bucket and plug it into a GFCI (do not put your hand in the bucket), then add the grounding probe.
One other thing to be aware of is newer GFCI's are self testing so when they deem they are no longer good they will shut themselves off, so run multiple GFCI receptacles, not just one. And if you have a grounding probe installed, the plug tester says you have a ground and you are still getting shocked your service ground is not adequate and you will need to fix the situation, because your service is now using your tank as a grounding means. Yep another friends tank and only two volts shown on the meter but the electrician had installed grounding conductors (bare) on the neutral bar on a secondary panel, with the main service panel 200' from the home where the service ground was located. Please treat electricity with the respect it deserves.
I had a friend call me and said he was getting shocked and did not understand why? He had everything plugged into a GFCI and installed a grounding probe? After I checked into it with a meter I found the previous home owner replaced all the receptacles with grounding type except they where not grounded including the GFCI he was using for his tank. Also he did not realize stealth heaters had been recalled!
I found a chart from Jade Learning that showed different levels of amperage and how it can affect people with 1 second of contact:
1 ma (.001 amps) – Perception level and slight tingle
5 ma (.005 amps) – Shock Felt but you should be able to let go
6-30 ma (.005-.03 amps) – Pain Full Shock
50-150 ma (.05-.150 amps) – Death is Possible
1000 ma (1 amp) – Death is likely
Ma = Milli-Amps
The average GFCI Receptacle is set to trip from 4 to 6 ma so it should trip at 4 but will definitely trip at 6, breakers and hospital grade GFCI receptacles trip at 5 ma (remember what was said about 5 ma)
I have always been told and believed that you don’t need a ground for a GFCI to work properly because they trip when there is an imbalance between the ungrounded and grounded circuit (hot and neutral). But with our aquariums it does not work that way because glass is a good insulator therefore there is no path for the imbalance to travel. So the leaking current and voltage just sits in our tanks until till we put our hands in it providing a grounding path. Or the piece of equipment draws enough amperage to trip the 20 amp breaker in the panel. Because the tank is insulated a faulty piece of equipment will use the water in the aquarium as resistance either cooking your tank or even exploding the equipment. The simple test for this is fill up a plastic bucket of water, place the bad piece of equipment in the bucket and plug it into a GFCI (do not put your hand in the bucket), then add the grounding probe.
One other thing to be aware of is newer GFCI's are self testing so when they deem they are no longer good they will shut themselves off, so run multiple GFCI receptacles, not just one. And if you have a grounding probe installed, the plug tester says you have a ground and you are still getting shocked your service ground is not adequate and you will need to fix the situation, because your service is now using your tank as a grounding means. Yep another friends tank and only two volts shown on the meter but the electrician had installed grounding conductors (bare) on the neutral bar on a secondary panel, with the main service panel 200' from the home where the service ground was located. Please treat electricity with the respect it deserves.
nyjumper
Community Member
Old houses didn't even run romex cable with grounds. A lot of houses would run a bare cable off there water pipes and then the water main would be grounded. So unless you renovated in the last 20 years or so you probably don't have a ground there.
Now people don't do that and just replace receptacles with gfci as this is acceptable with most codes. But you still don't have a ground.
Now people don't do that and just replace receptacles with gfci as this is acceptable with most codes. But you still don't have a ground.
stevieduk
Active Member
but your still alive !!
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