Grounding Probes Worth It?

[Brew12]

the bird on the wire idea works as long as you do not place your hand in your tank. Other wise it is like leaning an aluminum ladder against the wire trying to catch the bird.

True, the bird on a wire analogy does work for people. It just doesn't apply to the fish.

I had a friend call me and said he was getting shocked and did not understand why? He had everything plugged into a GFCI and installed a grounding probe? After I checked into it with a meter I found the previous home owner replaced all the receptacles with grounding type except they where not grounded including the GFCI he was using for his tank.

Not the first time I have heard of this. It is an incredibly dangerous situation.
A GFCI will still protect in these cases but a ground probe is useless. GFCI receptacles should come with special stickers to place on them if the outlet isn't grounded.

The simple test for this is fill up a plastic bucket of water, place the bad piece of equipment in the bucket and plug it into a GFCI (do not put your hand in the bucket), then add the grounding probe.

It should be salt water! Tap water is a a fairly good insulator. If your tap water is too clean it may or may not trip. Saltwater removes all doubt.

Old houses didn't even run romex cable with grounds. A lot of houses would run a bare cable off there water pipes and then the water main would be grounded. So unless you renovated in the last 20 years or so you probably don't have a ground there.

The concept behind this is that the water piping was conductive and ran underground outside the house. With non conductive piping becoming more popular they normally install a ground rod near the electrical panel for the home and use that to connect the homes grounding wires to ground.

 

[nyjumper]

99% of electrical services have 2 grounds. Ground rod and water main.

Were the water main cant be used a delta ground can be created to achieve the correct ohms to earth

 

[nyjumper]

The water piping ground was an old way to get grounds at receptacles when only a 2 wire cloth romex was used

 

[Brew12]

99% of electrical services have 2 grounds. Ground rod and water main.

I'll disagree with that. I haven't seen metal water mains installed in a subdivision in over 15 years. PVC water mains became common well before that. My house is an example. The soil calculations showed a single 6ft ground rod was all that would be needed but I had a single 10ft rod installed. No ground on the water main, it would serve no purpose.

Were the water main cant be used a delta ground can be created to achieve the correct ohms to earth

A delta ground serves more use in the industrial/utility world. My 500kV transformers have a delta secondary with a ground created through zig-zag transformers. Since most residential are powered from a split single phase there is no application for a delta ground.
Unless you are thinking of a lightening arresting system. Those would be a triangle (delta) of 3 grounds with a ground lead to the roof mounted air terminals and another ground lead to the buildings service ground rod. Even this would be unusual in a residential application, also.

The water piping ground was an old way to get grounds at receptacles when only a 2 wire cloth romex was used

This is true. The NEC allows using a metal piping as a way to carry ground through a home as long as certain criteria were met.

 

[nyjumper]

A house younger then 15 years to me is a new home...

Unfortunately where I live my house is 60+ years old and still cost half a mil

 

[alton]

Grounding has always been a controversial subject especially among electricians and our inspectors. I know my parents old home built in 1964 had grounding receptacles. My Father-in-laws built in 1960 had non-grounding. One of our service reps remembers mandatory grounding around 1968 here in SA. To use a metal water pipe ground it must be in the soil for 10' Article 250.52 (A) (1). My home is 33+ years old and 2' outside the slab it switches to PVC.
406.4 (D)(2)(B) permits replacing a non-grounding receptacle with a grounding GFCI permitted the receptacle is marked "No Equipment Ground". Some of the older homes I have seen the wire was installed in conduit, so the grounding means was transferred using the strap of the receptacle to the metal box which connected to the metal pipe. The most important thing is to make sure you are protected by a GFCI. Whether you use a grounding probe to provide the grounding means or your body is your choice.

 

[Wonf]

These might be a dumb questions, but I've read that it doesn't matter where the grounding probe is plugged into. Does that mean I can have it plugged into the power strip which is plugged into a GFCI? If so, I have two power strips going into the 2 outlets of the GFCI, does it matter which power strip I plug it into?

 

[Salty1962]

but your still alive !!

Yes Sir, but the only reason is I fell backwards and it pulled my hand from the sump. It still bit me pretty bad!;Inpain;Inpain

 

[Salty1962]

These might be a dumb questions, but I've read that it doesn't matter where the grounding probe is plugged into. Does that mean I can have it plugged into the power strip which is plugged into a GFCI? If so, I have two power strips going into the 2 outlets of the GFCI, does it matter which power strip I plug it into?

No, as long as they both are on the GFCI.

 

[azreeftank]

These might be a dumb questions, but I've read that it doesn't matter where the grounding probe is plugged into. Does that mean I can have it plugged into the power strip which is plugged into a GFCI? If so, I have two power strips going into the 2 outlets of the GFCI, does it matter which power strip I plug it into?

Great question I bought 2 GFCI outlets at HOME DEPOT that plug into my standard wall outlet. This leaves no room for my ground probe so I have the same question! Can we plug ground probe to GFCI or does it need to be plugged to standard grounded outlet??

 

[Brew12]

Great question I bought 2 GFCI outlets at HOME DEPOT that plug into my standard wall outlet. This leaves no room for my ground probe so I have the same question! Can we plug ground probe to GFCI or does it need to be plugged to standard grounded outlet??

The ground probe can be plugged into any outlet. It doesn't even have to be on the same circuit as the GFCI.

 

[Salty1962]

Great question I bought 2 GFCI outlets at HOME DEPOT that plug into my standard wall outlet. This leaves no room for my ground probe so I have the same question! Can we plug ground probe to GFCI or does it need to be plugged to standard grounded outlet??

Your GFCI has to be grounded for it to work properly so you can use the outlets on it.

 

[azreeftank]

Your GFCI has to be grounded for it to work properly so you can use the outlets on it.

So can I plug this GFCI to my wall then my ground probe directly into this??

 

[Fudsey]

@Brew12 I have a basement sump, would I need 2 grounding probes, one for the sump and one for the tank?

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 I have a basement sump, would I need 2 grounding probes, one for the sump and one for the tank?

I would just do one in the sump, especially if your powerheads in the top tank are on gfci, or are Vortech's where the motor isn't wet. The odds of one failing while your return pump is shut down and while your hand is in the tank are very low.

 

[Fudsey]

Thanks :-)

 

[Salty1962]

So can I plug this GFCI to my wall then my ground probe directly into this??

Yes