Hanna Checkers Shake Time

[EricR]

I shake the S out of both Hanna phosphate and nitrate. Didn’t realize that po4 was supposed to be a gentle shake. I wonder what the difference is in the results.

It'd be easy for one of us to test gentle shake vs vigorous (for PO4) but,,, uhh,,, I ain't gonna volunteer.
*plus, after vigorous NO3 shake, I enjoy the relaxed PO4 shake ... doh!

I always wondered if it had anything to do with the fact that the Phosphate timer is less (than nitrate) so less time for bubbles to settle down (that might interfere with photo receptor reading),,, but now I'm just talking out of my ___ and have no idea.

 

[ryshark]

It'd be easy for one of us to test gentle shake vs vigorous (for PO4) but,,, uhh,,, I ain't gonna volunteer.
*plus, after vigorous NO3 shake, I enjoy the relaxed PO4 shake ... doh!

I always wondered if it had anything to do with the fact that the Phosphate timer is less (than nitrate) so less time for bubbles to settle down (that might interfere with photo receptor reading),,, but now I'm just talking out of my ___ and have no idea.

I’ll try in tonight, the right way. After the shake then I do a quick swirl to get the bubbles out. But you may be right about the bubbles.

 

[slingfox]

I use an AutoAqua Smart Stirrer with a custom printed insert from Etsy which fits the Hanna checker vials perfectly. The Stirrer can be bought off of AliExpress for $9.45 with free shipping and the 3D printed insert costs $7.99 on Etsy. I believe this is the cleanest and nicest looking solution out there.

Both BRS and Saltwateraquarium.com sell the stirrer for $32.99 if you don't like AliExpress but I have had zero issues with retailers selling on there:

Smart Magnetic Stirir for Testing - AutoAqua

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Spare stir bars can be bought in bulk on Amazon. I lost one of these during my first week but have not had any losses since:

https://a.co/d/hz5SXKY

I have a 3D printed tray which I use to store my three most used Hanna tests: Alkalinity, Nitrate, and Phosphorus. The tray also has slots for 4 vials. For the Nitrate and Phosphorous vials I keep a mini stir bar in each:

https://fishofhex.com/products/multi-hanna-checker-storage-v3?_pos=1&_sid=7f81b8812&_ss=r&variant=40004314824758

Lastly, I use a mid-priced pipettor:

https://a.co/d/8KDJSpC

The combination of tray + pipettor + magnetic stirrer makes testing super efficient. The labor saving equipment also increases the consistency of testing.

 

[Mikeltee]

I’ll try in tonight, the right way. After the shake then I do a quick swirl to get the bubbles out. But you may be right about the bubbles.

Tomorrow I'm going to do an experiment. I wish i could create a reference at .1ppm. I do have trisodium phosphate but I dont feel like doing the math so im just going to do tank water which has been stable at about .09ppm. If someone would like to drop the formula to create a reference with tridodium phophate I will. I do have extremely accurate grain scales used for reloading if needed. I have the UL hanna so .20ppm is max concentration.

I have two other manual phospate test kits as well because I used to have issues with elevated readings using the Hanna while dosing silicates, however I recently figured out that if you wait 24 hours after dosing, you will get normal readings even with elevated silicates (>2.0ppm which is max the low Hanna Si will measure)

Here's the plan:
-Red Sea test
-Salifert test
-Normal procedure hand shaken vigorously for 2min and 3min rest using Hanna timer
-2 vile tests... 1 vile with tank water only and one vile with tank water and chemicals. Shake 30sec on Vortex setting 8 as shown in OP. Reference reading will be taken right before test and I'll skip the timer:
--0 rest
--1 min rest
--2 min rest
--3 min rest
--4 min rest
--5 min rest

Depending on results, I may run again with only a 10sec shake on Vortex as that's all it takes to create a solution.


I'll do the same for nitrate, however, I don't have any manual tests. I'll begin at 1min because that is usually how long it takes to see pink. For the hand shaken test, I'll "shake gently" I suppose...

 

[Mikeltee]

FWIW, Hanna demonstrations do not "shake gently" in their YouTube videos. I suppose this can be tested as well...

Phosphate:


Nitrate:

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hanna Checkers state to shake Phosphate and Nitrate chemicals for 2 minutes. I picked up a vortex for $30 on ebay. I lay the vile on its side, crank that bad boy up to 8, and the chemicals are turned into solution in about 10 seconds. Do I really need to blast these things for 2 minutes? If so, why?

If anyone else uses one of these, I suggest laying the vials on their side. It took me about 3 months to figure that out. At first, I held them straight up. Next, I tilted them and noticed a vortex forming. I accidently laid one on its side the other day and it just made a giant vortex.... sweet!

I hope that you realise that you're not supposed to shake the phosphate test, just gently invert for 2 minutes.

Shaking it introduces air which affects the result.

It always pays to read the instructions for test kits.

 

[kilnakorr]

I hope that you realise that you're not supposed to shake the phosphate test, just gently invert for 2 minutes.

Shaking it introduces air which affects the result.

It always pays to read the instructions for test kits.

Both video and the instructions says to shake it:

 

[Garf]

Both video and the instructions says to shake it:

Look at the "Tips for an accurate measurement" section. It mentions about air bubbles there.

 

[d2mini]

Randy's working on scientifically testing this now...

 

[gbroadbridge]

Both video and the instructions says to shake it:

It doesn't say shake the heck out of it with a mechanical device.

 

[taricha]

Do I really need to blast these things for 2 minutes? If so, why?

Do you have any idea why Hanna suggests gently inverting the PO4 vial instead of vigorously shaking it? They suggest vigorously shaking the NO3 vial.

Phosphate ULR: Add the content of one packet of HI774-0Marine Phosphate ULR Reagent. Replace the plastic stopper and the cap. Shake gently (for about 2 minutes) until the powder is completely dissolved.

Nitrate HR: Add the content of one packet of HI782-0 Marine Nitrate HR Reagent. Replace the plastic stopper and the cap. Shake vigorously for 2 minutes

This is for a reason. There's Zinc (usually) metal in Nitrate test kits. The zinc reduces some portion of the nitrate - but never all of it - to nitrite as an intermediate step and nitrite reacts with the color forming chemicals to generate the test kit color.
So the way in which you shake the test determines how much of the nitrate in solution comes in contact with the tiny powder of zinc metal. If you shake it harder then you get more nitrate reduced to nitrite and thus more color.

as usual with these things, Rick has actually done the measurements to show that mixing technique matters (it even matters what container you use to shake it in.)

TABLE 1

CHART 1
​

The reference in Method 4 to the Auto-Shaker can be seen in the link below. I have been using this shaker for quite a while now and it does a good job…a bit noisy but very helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBlGgNaLMq8

The above test was done with the Hanna Low range test. The high range is a bit different and maybe not as sensitive.
I'd like to see this experiment done with the HR NO3....

I suppose I could do a test. Before the vortex, I would set a timer. I even shake for 2min with the vortex. If it's all about development time, I'll just use one vial with tank water, shake for 30sec on the vortex, and use a timer at 5min and 9min respectively.

The takeaway is to shake nitrate tests hard, and the same way every time.

Phosphate is a reaction with the soluble chemicals that proceeds well which shouldn't be as technique dependent on vigorous mixing.

 

[Mikeltee]

I hope that you realise that you're not supposed to shake the phosphate test, just gently invert for 2 minutes.

Shaking it introduces air which affects the result.

It always pays to read the instructions for test kits.

Did you see Hannas video? There was nothing gentle or inverting about it. We will find out today if it matters.

 

[Antaguana]

FWIW, Hanna demonstrations do not "shake gently" in their YouTube videos.

I really hate it when the marketing department put out videos that don't follow the directions. I can't help but think someone spent hours testing and validating and working out the best method only to have it totally undermined by the marketing department.

 

[kilnakorr]

I hope that you realise that you're not supposed to shake the phosphate test, just gently invert for 2 minutes.

Shaking it introduces air which affects the result.

It always pays to read the instructions for test kits.

Look at the "Tips for an accurate measurement" section. It mentions about air bubbles there.

It doesn't say shake the heck out of it with a mechanical device.

I'm not sure if it really matters.
If you check the vial after shaking the bubbles rise to the surface very quickly.
Since the reading is taking in the middle of the vial after 3 minutes, the bubbles should be gone by that.
Planning on doing tests in an hour or so, and can try gently vs violently shaking for 2 min, and see if the results differ. Only way to know for sure, is trying

 

[ryshark]

I'm not sure if it really matters.
If you check the vial after shaking the bubbles rise to the surface very quickly.
Since the reading is taking in the middle of the vial after 3 minutes, the bubbles should be gone by that.
Planning on doing tests in an hour or so, and can try gently vs violently shaking for 2 min, and see if the results differ. Only way to know for sure, is trying

My hypothesis is that it doesn’t make that much of a difference. Looking forward to seeing your results.

 

[FernBluffReef]

I really hate it when the marketing department put out videos that don't follow the directions. I can't help but think someone spent hours testing and validating and working out the best method only to have it totally undermined by the marketing department.

Ditto.

The CA test for example gets a bad rap. Marketing video says to use RO/DI or distilled water. Well if I use my zero TDS RO/DI it will read ~600 error. Talk to Hanna, CA often makes it thru our RO/DI filters hence why many get erroneously high CA results when using their checker. Recommendation is to use vapor distilled water, preferably lab/titration grade and then the tester is stable, relible and inline with other test kits. But do they update the instruction video. Nope. Do they update the instruction Nope says use deionized. But they have now at least published a nice blog post with best practices that addresses.

But I digress. Sorry about that

 

[JayM]

I shake for 30-40 seconds. My Hanna test results are reasonably close to other test test kits.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Did you see Hannas video? There was nothing gentle or inverting about it. We will find out today if it matters.

That's what happens when the folks in marketing know how to make pretty videos but have zero reading comprehension skills.

 

[kilnakorr]

So I did two tests with my hanna phosphorus ULR. I used a timer to unsure 2 minutes mix time.

1. Inverting vial: 31 ppb
2. Shaking like Michael J. Fox on ritalin: 32 ppb

Seems at doesn't really matter, if shaking or stirred.

 

[gbroadbridge]

So I did two tests with my hanna phosphorus ULR. I used a timer to unsure 2 minutes mix time.

1. Inverting vial: 31 ppb
2. Shaking like Michael J. Fox on ritalin: 32 ppb

Seems at doesn't really matter, if shaking or stirred.

How did you test linearity over the devices stated measurement range?