Has anyone that pre-ordered seen their ION Director yet?

Scdell

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If you look at this realistically the people that pre-ordered aren't saving any money.
We purchased a piece of equipment to monitor and test with.
Two years later we're still buying test kits and refill reagents and manually testing.
Which has slowly eaten away at our discount. We are ending up with a free bottle of reagent for our faith in GHL. If we wait too much longer we'll basically break even.
What a deal!
 

HuneyBear

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It's becoming a holiday. My bank is closing early for Black Friday. 2pm. GHL won't be shipping Friday. Probably won't be open.
I'm not done with GHL. I'm upset, yeah.
I can't see hydros doing what I want. There's only Apex out there and I'm not going there.
I will never ever put money down on a pre-order again though. I'll wait until the item is released and in the hands of consumers for at least 6 months before purchasing. Yeah, we got a lower price and a free bottle of reagent for pre order but at this point it's not worth it.
I’m not abandoning my GHL setup, just going to integrate hydros from here on out. I already have a wave engine and run almost all wavemakers off of it. It’s tied into my Profilux. I wiont even look at apex to be honest. To many friends with nuked tanks because of its failures. I’m sure that comment will bring out the defenders, but so be it, the facts are facts.
 

wmb0003

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If you look at this realistically the people that pre-ordered aren't saving any money.
We purchased a piece of equipment to monitor and test with.
Two years later we're still buying test kits and refill reagents and manually testing.
Which has slowly eaten away at our discount. We are ending up with a free bottle of reagent for our faith in GHL. If we wait too much longer we'll basically break even.
What a deal!
This logic doesn't make sense. Whether you pre-ordered or not, you still have to test the tank with manual test and reagents. So you are not spending any of your "savings".

Example:
Preorder Peter: Spends $700 on unit, get $50 of free merch. Spends $50 on test kits during 2 year wait period.
Lazy Larry: Spends $1000 on unit at time of release. Spends $50 on test kits until release(2 years.)

See they both have to manually test. Preorder Peter still has a savings of $350.

Disclaimer: All of these values were made up. :D
 

Scdell

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This logic doesn't make sense. Whether you pre-ordered or not, you still have to test the tank with manual test and reagents. So you are not spending any of your "savings".

Example:
Preorder Peter: Spends $700 on unit, get $50 of free merch. Spends $50 on test kits during 2 year wait period.
Lazy Larry: Spends $1000 on unit at time of release. Spends $50 on test kits until release(2 years.)

See they both have to manually test. Preorder Peter still has a savings of $350.

Disclaimer: All of these values were made up. :D
I'll manually test after receiving the unit for a few weeks, maybe a month to make sure it's on track. But after that I will not manually test. One thing about math....... One can make it do exactly what one wants to justify something. And they do. I'll go with my "logic" over yours.
 

IKD

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This logic doesn't make sense. Whether you pre-ordered or not, you still have to test the tank with manual test and reagents. So you are not spending any of your "savings".

Example:
Preorder Peter: Spends $700 on unit, get $50 of free merch. Spends $50 on test kits during 2 year wait period.
Lazy Larry: Spends $1000 on unit at time of release. Spends $50 on test kits until release(2 years.)

See they both have to manually test. Preorder Peter still has a savings of $350.

Disclaimer: All of these values were made up. :D
You could also say that taking the money spent on the pre-order and investing in a low interest bank account or stock market for 2+ years instead would probably more than make up the discounted pre-order price. But that’s all water under the bridge anyway.
 

FishyFishFish

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The maths is more complicated than that. If you had got your units on time then you would have been paying for replacement probes and reagents. I don’t know the cost comparison but it could actually be cheaper to use manual test kits, so you could actually be saving money.

But then there is inflation. Again, I don’t know about the ION director but a lot of the other GHL prices have taken a big hike, and presumably your prices are locked in. Again, you could be ‘saving’ money.

I would be extremely annoyed if I had pre-ordered, but it wouldn’t be because I thought the delay was costing me money.
 

Scdell

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The maths is more complicated than that. If you had got your units on time then you would have been paying for replacement probes and reagents. I don’t know the cost comparison but it could actually be cheaper to use manual test kits, so you could actually be saving money.

But then there is inflation. Again, I don’t know about the ION director but a lot of the other GHL prices have taken a big hike, and presumably your prices are locked in. Again, you could be ‘saving’ money.

I would be extremely annoyed if I had pre-ordered, but it wouldn’t be because I thought the delay was costing me money.
It's just a point of view to ponder. The two year wait doesn't help anyone here.
I don't feel the discount we got for pre-order is worth it anymore. Just the aggravation alone isn't worth it. Never mind the cost. But it is what it is and we shall wait some more!!!
Again...... I'll never pre-order anything. This has left a sour taste that I'll never forget.
 

wmb0003

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You could also say that taking the money spent on the pre-order and investing in a low interest bank account or stock market for 2+ years instead would probably more than make up the discounted pre-order price. But that’s all water under the bridge anyway.
Yes, I totally agree. Just for fun I looked up the index fund that I invest in. In the past 2 years, it has gone up right under 50%. So going back to my example, Lazy Larry could have put his $1k in that index fund and by now it would be at $1.5k, putting him ahead of Preorder Peter. But the stock market could have crashed and been a totally different outcome.

What I was trying to convey in my earlier post, that trying to justify losing out on your "savings" by saying you had to manually test is foolish.
 

Scdell

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Yes, I totally agree. Just for fun I looked up the index fund that I invest in. In the past 2 years, it has gone up right under 50%. So going back to my example, Lazy Larry could have put his $1k in that index fund and by now it would be at $1.5k, putting him ahead of Preorder Peter. But the stock market could have crashed and been a totally different outcome.

What I was trying to convey in my earlier post, that trying to justify losing out on your "savings" by saying you had to manually test is foolish.
Foolish?? It's a valid point. We all don't invest. That's adding a different aspect. Like I said, one can make math do what they want for justification.
 

BigMax

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I'm starting a new build, I was strongly considering GHL as I perceive their products to be well engineered relative to the competition. Looking for value, which properly defined is the best balance between cost and quality, where indeed additional cost may be well justified.

I'm looking at adding both the KH and ION Directors, but I now see like many products across the board GHL prices have increased 10% in the last 2 weeks. Now we're talking $1850 for the 2 standalone solutions. The KH 1000ml bottle is $36.90 (BRS) which has been discussed in terms of significant ongoing utilization costs.

I don't believe Trident is designed, or built, to nearly the same standards, but one would expect that to be the case based purely on cost differential. Needless to say this is an expensive hobby, but the cost of the GHL is a definitely a tall hurdle, one I may not be able to leap. Trident?
 

wmb0003

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Foolish?? It's a valid point. We all don't invest. That's adding a different aspect. Like I said, one can make math do what they want for justification.
Please explain your logic further then.
How are you losing your "savings" based on manual testing?
If you did not pre-order a unit, you would still have to test manually, correct?
So its a wash.

You are pulling at straws because you are frustrated your unit hasn't shipped yet.
 

FishyFishFish

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I think GHL are starting to price themselves out of the market.

All of my GHL stuff (several dosers, a KHD and a P4) is open box or used, and I think it’s worth about what I paid for it (which was a lot less than retail). I will not pay full retail price, particularly now the prices have gone up.

One of the reasons I haven’t ordered an Ion Director is because I was waiting to get a used one. Hopefully they start coming in, in vast numbers, so that they hit the used market, and then (if they work as advertised) I can consider jumping on the train.

Until them, I am watching with extreme interest to see when they arrive and how they perform.
 

IKD

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I'm starting a new build, I was strongly considering GHL as I perceive their products to be well engineered relative to the competition. Looking for value, which properly defined is the best balance between cost and quality, where indeed additional cost may be well justified.

I'm looking at adding both the KH and ION Directors, but I now see like many products across the board GHL prices have increased 10% in the last 2 weeks. Now we're talking $1850 for the 2 standalone solutions. The KH 1000ml bottle is $36.90 (BRS) which has been discussed in terms of significant ongoing utilization costs.

I don't believe Trident is designed, or built, to nearly the same standards, but one would expect that to be the case based purely on cost differential. Needless to say this is an expensive hobby, but the cost of the GHL is a definitely a tall hurdle, one I may not be able to leap. Trident?
I was in the same boat in early 2020. I was waiting for this to come out and delayed my build for months for it, but after the third delay or so, I couldn’t wait and went with Trident in December last year. I know there’s a lot of criticism of it but that could be a very small sample given the total population of users that have them. I personally have not had any issues with it over the year I have owned it that makes me regret the choice. I do see that Alk readings start to trend incorrectly as the solution gets low though. New solution and recalibration every few months is no big deal to me. I would have chosen ION Director at the time, but you can’t choose something that isn’t available, right?
 

Scdell

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Please explain your logic further then.
How are you losing your "savings" based on manual testing?
If you did not pre-order a unit, you would still have to test manually, correct?
So its a wash.

You are pulling at straws because you are frustrated your unit hasn't shipped yet.
Your logic is based on "if". The biggest word in the English language. But if is just speculation. Example..... If neither of us was born we wouldn't be having this conversation. If neither of us joined R2R we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Yes, I would still have to manually test. But I bought a piece of test equipment so I don't have to and I'm still buying reagent and test kits two years later. So just because if still be manually testing if I didn't pre-order is an invalid point.
 

Scdell

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Please explain your logic further then.
How are you losing your "savings" based on manual testing?
If you did not pre-order a unit, you would still have to test manually, correct?
So its a wash.

You are pulling at straws because you are frustrated your unit hasn't shipped yet.
Besides my motive is a valid point also. Two years to wait for something that's paid for. That was supposed to be ready when it was announced? Yeah that's a valid point.
 

wmb0003

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Your logic is based on "if". The biggest word in the English language. But if is just speculation. Example..... If neither of us was born we wouldn't be having this conversation. If neither of us joined R2R we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Yes, I would still have to manually test. But I bought a piece of test equipment so I don't have to and I'm still buying reagent and test kits two years later. So just because if still be manually testing if I didn't pre-order is an invalid point.
You did not answer my question, you just debated MY logic. Please explain exactly how using manual tests is eating up your "savings", the savings is still present. You got free stuff and a discounted price that someone who orders now did not get.
Besides my motive is a valid point also. Two years to wait for something that's paid for. That was supposed to be ready when it was announced? Yeah that's a valid point.
Yes, I agree that is a valid point. But trying to drag GHL through the mud and grabbing on to anything and everything to make a case as to why it is unjust to you. That I do not agree with.
 

Scdell

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You did not answer my question, you just debated MY logic. Please explain exactly how using manual tests is eating up your "savings", the savings is still present. You got free stuff and a discounted price that someone who orders now did not get.

Yes, I agree that is a valid point. But trying to drag GHL through the mud and grabbing on to anything and everything to make a case as to why it is unjust to you. That I do not agree with.
I explained. You're not getting it. I'm done arguing the matter. It's why I quit Facebook.
 

HuneyBear

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I'm starting a new build, I was strongly considering GHL as I perceive their products to be well engineered relative to the competition. Looking for value, which properly defined is the best balance between cost and quality, where indeed additional cost may be well justified.

I'm looking at adding both the KH and ION Directors, but I now see like many products across the board GHL prices have increased 10% in the last 2 weeks. Now we're talking $1850 for the 2 standalone solutions. The KH 1000ml bottle is $36.90 (BRS) which has been discussed in terms of significant ongoing utilization costs.

I don't believe Trident is designed, or built, to nearly the same standards, but one would expect that to be the case based purely on cost differential. Needless to say this is an expensive hobby, but the cost of the GHL is a definitely a tall hurdle, one I may not be able to leap. Trident?
The price of everything has gone up. There are other sources for khd reagent, it’s not a special one source thing. You can even get it on Amazon.
 

Scdell

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Well..... Isn't that something special. Continued to my dissatisfaction GHL canceled my IOND order and refunded my money. Of which I call BS. They always love to toot their own horn. IE, the latest first place award for something that didn't work right. But say something bad about them? This is what happens. I'm not the one that said to watch for a tracking # at least three times which never materialized with no explanation just silence. I hope they don't think I'll stay silent about this. They'll be wrong. As wrong as the promises of shipping that didn't happen.
 

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