Randy's Elements to Dose

[Miami Reef]

No biological role, as used by me and the Royal Society of Chemistry means no organism has any need or natural use if it. It does not mean no impact on organisms, such as a medication or toxicity.

Is this a very nuanced topic in the chemistry world?

What happens if an organism needs the medication?

Why is “natural use” an important distinction vs unnatural use?

Is the distinction more like, “Do they require it for survival?”

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is this a very nuanced topic in the chemistry world?

What happens if an organism needs the medication?

Why is “natural use” an important distinction vs unnatural use?

Is the distinction more like, “Do they require it for survival?”

Yes, it is somewhat arbitrary but I also think it is useful to make the distinction this way. In any case, if one wants to include, say, an unnatural antibiotic that is entirely man made and it saves someone’s life by killing a bacteria, then it certainly has a use, but including it in a list of chemicals with a natural biological role (say, glucose) may not be the clearest way to characterize it.

 

[Miami Reef]

Yes, it is somewhat arbitrary but I also think it is useful to make the distinction this way. In any case, if one wants to include, say, an unnatural antibiotic that is entirely man made and it saves someone’s life by killing a bacteria, then it certainly has a use, but including it in a list of chemicals with a natural biological role (say, glucose) may not be the clearest way to characterize it.

It’s kind of like, “Can they directly use it and benefit from it?” that qualifies as a biological role.

I totally agree with you. I was trying to understand the concept. I appreciate you explaining it to me.

I don’t like dosing elements with no biological role. I wish Tropic Marin didn’t include lithium in the A Trace Elements since the salt mix usually contains a surplus of it. I feel like it’s a waste product, and I sometimes wonder if I’ll drive it too high.

This was with never dosing any lithium supplement (Oceamo MS):

I just started dosing Tropic A- since the elements that A- supplied were a little low in the last ICP. I only dosed the K+ bottle for the longest time.

Pro-Coral A- Trace 2 Contains:

• Bromine
• Fluorine
• Iodine
• Lithium
• Molybdenum
• Selenium
• Vanadium

 

[Slark]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley, thank you so much for mangan and iron dosing. I have question about silicat dosing, i dont understand much what "water glass" is, in my country, water glass look much diffrent from what you describe. But i found this product, Na2SiO3.9H2O in powder form, can i use it instead ? If yes, what is the weekly dose for 900 litters tank for 1ppm silica as you said ? Thank you so much

 

[Ashish Patel]

Hi Randy,

Its getting costly to dose Iron in my large system (550gallon) using Redsea Iron color C. I dose about 20ML per week to try to make it last but I am sure I need at least 50ml per week if not more.

The reason why I stayed with Red sea is because of the managanese and other trace elements but trying to find a better solutions since its not economical for a larger system.

Can I just buy something like this and try to figure out the math on how much Iron is comparable to the red sea products?

 

[Miami Reef]

Hi Randy,

Its getting costly to dose Iron in my large system (550gallon) using Redsea Iron color C. I dose about 20ML per week to try to make it last but I am sure I need at least 50ml per week if not more.

The reason why I stayed with Red sea is because of the managanese and other trace elements but trying to find a better solutions since its not economical for a larger system.

Can I just buy something like this and try to figure out the math on how much Iron is comparable to the red sea products?

Dosing for Algae Scrubbers

For all those who do dose your systems that contain algae scrubbers, which product have you used with great results to grow your algae for the scrubber? I'm just connecting my algae scrubber to my system and was curious as to which product to began dosing. Please let me know. Thanks. Larry

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Miami Reef]

From it:

My recommended DIY is:

Fergon tablets (from a drug store).

One Fergon tablet (ferrous gluconate) contains 27 mg of iron. Dissolve that in about 27 mL RO/DI (my recommendation, but other concentrations are OK, just don't dilute too much), the concentration is about 27 mg/27 ml ~ 1 mg/mL.

I dose ~1 mL to my tank with a volume of about 300 gallons once or twice a week.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If you don't want to use the Fergon recipe (which is by far the easiest), I also have a ferrous citrate recipe from an old article.

The problem with ferrous sulfate is that there's no organic chelator (such as citrate or gluconate) helping it maintain solubility, so it may drop out of tankw ater faster than the bound ones. It probably will work fine as the iron may find natural organic chelators in the tank, but having it helps provide confidence that it will last until your next dose.

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iron In A Reef Tank

Randy discusses iron and its usage in our aquariums.

reefs.com

Iron in Reef Tanks: How Much and What Form?
Deciding how much iron to add is fairly easy because, in my experience, it doesn’t seem to matter too much. Presumably, once you add enough to eliminate iron as a limiting nutrient, extra iron does not apparently cause harm (at least that I’ve detected in my tanks or heard of from others). I selected a dose of about 0.1 to 0.3 mL of a solution containing 5 g of iron (as 25 g of ferrous sulfate heptahydrate) in 250 mL of water containing 50.7 g of sodium citrate dihydrate. This liquid is dosed 2-3 times per week to my system with a total water volume of about 250 gallons. This iron(II) citrate has turned brown and cloudy since I first made up the bottle years ago, suggesting that it is oxidizing to iron(III) and some is precipitating from solution, but I still use it. Over the past 4 years, I’ve dosed nearly all of the 5 grams of actual iron to my tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley, thank you so much for mangan and iron dosing. I have question about silicat dosing, i dont understand much what "water glass" is, in my country, water glass look much diffrent from what you describe. But i found this product, Na2SiO3.9H2O in powder form, can i use it instead ? If yes, what is the weekly dose for 900 litters tank for 1ppm silica as you said ? Thank you so much

Sorry, I missed this, but that product will likely work ok. I'd use it the same as my water glass recipe since exact doses are not important.

 

[Harpo]

Randy, I used the Fergon recipe but I have undissolved sediment in the bottom. What do I do with this? Do I need to store this in a glass container or is my plastic bottle OK?

 

[Miami Reef]

Randy, I used the Fergon recipe but I have undissolved sediment in the bottom. What do I do with this? Do I need to store this in a glass container or is my plastic bottle OK?

The precipitation on the bottom is normal and to be expected. Only dose the clear portion on top.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Agree, it is normal and expected since some of the formulation ingredients in the tablet do not dissolve. Leave those behind and dose the clear liquid. :)

 

[Harpo]

The remaining liquid is solid green, not opaque. Is a plastic bottle OK for storage?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The remaining liquid is solid green, not opaque. Is a plastic bottle OK for storage?

Yes. I cannot tell what you mean by solid green. It is usually clear green. If not, let it settle overnight then use it whatever it looks like.

 

[rishma]

I had not noticed this thread before, being that I am periodically absent from the forum. Great contribution to the hobby as usual @Randy Holmes-Farley!

I don’t use moonshiners but I understand the attraction to the method. I’ve seen some SPS tanks really improve color and growth after switching to moonshiners. What I don’t appreciate is the religious fervor that followers tend to have, condescending those who are not believers. But hey, that passion is not unique to moonshiners.

My take away is that while there is a lack of evidence that some of the individual trace elements are beneficial, I understand why people use the moonshiner system. I believe many see great results but I also think they don’t really know why. Some of the trace they are adding surely help, other additives are probably a waste of money. Because our knowledge of coral biology is incomplete, I suppose the moonshiner method is throwing everything at it. I’d argue that some claims about specific trace elements are more marketing than science. I’m not meaning to be derogatory, I have spent untold treasure on things not supported by science.

Next time I do an ICP, I’ll refer back to this thread to decide what to correct.

 

[rishma]

Two trace elements warrant special attention since they rapidly deplete and are used by a great many organisms: iron and manganese. If you dose no other trace elements, these two would be the two I'd pick.

Is there a suggested diy solution for these?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is there a suggested diy solution for these?

Yes. Those and many others are linked here:

DIY Chemistry Archive

I thought it would be useful to have an archive of DIY chemistry methods. I'll add to it as things come up. Calcium and Alkalinity DIY method comparison https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/randy-recommended-diy-two-part-recipes.984604/ Three Part using Sodium Hydroxide (including Balling Part...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[acro_lover]

@Randy Holmes-Farley can i add Sodium Fluoride (97%) solution to the sodium carbonate ( my alkalinity part) to save one dosing pump? Thanks

 

[acro_lover]

I just tried. I added 400ml of Sodium Fluoride to my new 25L sodium carbonate mix and the NaF crystallized. Is it safe to dose this? Also what happens during the crystallisation, is the Fluor gone now?? I am not dosing any Fluorine at this point?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You likely precipitated some but not all of the fluoride as sodium fluoride. All the extra sodium from the sodium carbonate makes the fluoride less stable in the solution.