Having issues need some advice.

[jstabile316]

So here’s the story, about a month n half ago I upgraded to a lagoon 25 from a nuvo 10. The nuvo 10 was up and running for a year before the upgrade. Transfered all live rock, filter media ( matrix), inverts , fish and corals plus 80% of the old tank water to the 25 lagoon. Everything looked good for about 2 weeks besides a lil Cyano and then one day I noticed the water was cloudy and most of the corals looked irritated and closed up. Figured it was a bacterial bloom so I ordered some microbacter 7 and started dosing following the instructions, about a week into dosing microbacter a lot of my corals browned out and po4 dropped to 0. A month later tank water is still cloudy and Cyano is out of control and I can’t get any detectable po4 on my Hanna checker.
5 days ago I started dosing neophos to try to bring up po4 been dosing .01 daily for 5 days and still getting a 0 po4 reading ,corals are not doing well and water is still cloudy. Not really sure what to do from here.

Tank 25 lagoon
Alk- 8.5
Cal- 440
Mag- 1480
Salinity- 35
Ph- 8.1
Nitrate- 5
Po4- 0
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0

lighting- 2 Ai prime 16hd - uv and violet 40%
rb and blue 32% red& green 3% and cool white is a 14%

Live stock - pair of clowns, sixline wrasse, Banggai cardinal, emerald crab , 2 astrea snails and 2 blue hermits. 90% lps corals, some zoas and gsp.

attatched are some pics of the nuvo 10 before the upgrade, 25 lagoon after transfer and the 25 lagoon now.

 

[Quietman]

Going to ask the obvious...have you done any water changes? Ideally a series of larger 20% or more every few days over a week or two?

 

[TokenReefer]

Figured it was a bacterial bloom so I ordered some microbacter 7

Not sure why you would counter a bacterial bloom with more bacteria but what is your concern now? The pictures don't look crazy imo (as far as cloudy water). You can change 100% of the water if necessary. Carbon should/could help. Wet skimming will remove more dirty water. What have you tried so far to clear it up?

 

[jstabile316]

Going to ask the obvious...have you done any water changes? Ideally a series of larger 20% or more every few days over a week or two?

Did 3- 5 gallon wc every 4 days so almost 25% total each wc . system is only about 21 gallons. But it looked even more cloudy after changing the water and my po4 started bottoming out.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So here’s the story, about a month n half ago I upgraded to a lagoon 25 from a nuvo 10. The nuvo 10 was up and running for a year before the upgrade. Transfered all live rock, filter media ( matrix), inverts , fish and corals plus 80% of the old tank water to the 25 lagoon. Everything looked good for about 2 weeks besides a lil Cyano and then one day I noticed the water was cloudy and most of the corals looked irritated and closed up. Figured it was a bacterial bloom so I ordered some microbacter 7 and started dosing following the instructions, about a week into dosing microbacter a lot of my corals browned out and po4 dropped to 0. A month later tank water is still cloudy and Cyano is out of control and I can’t get any detectable po4 on my Hanna checker.
5 days ago I started dosing neophos to try to bring up po4 been dosing .01 daily for 5 days and still getting a 0 po4 reading ,corals are not doing well and water is still cloudy. Not really sure what to do from here.

Tank 25 lagoon
Alk- 8.5
Cal- 440
Mag- 1480
Salinity- 35
Ph- 8.1
Nitrate- 5
Po4- 0
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0

lighting- 2 Ai prime 16hd - uv and violet 40%
rb and blue 32% red& green 3% and cool white is a 14%

Live stock - pair of clowns, sixline wrasse, Banggai cardinal, emerald crab , 2 astrea snails and 2 blue hermits. 90% lps corals, some zoas and gsp.

attatched are some pics of the nuvo 10 before the upgrade, 25 lagoon after transfer and the 25 lagoon now.

I dont think this is a bacterial bloom but rather calcium carbonate precipitation or low magnesium. This happens commonly with tank transfers. If not running carbon - do it. If running carbon , allow it to work assuming its new.
Is your sand packed disallowing bacteria to do its job and add more denitrifying bacteria to help boost. Do a light siphoning of sand surface to assure its not packed.
As for cyano, cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skim-mate. When the protein skimmer does not output the best efficiency or you do not have the suitable protein skimmer to cover the tank, the air bubbles created by the skimmer might be insufficient. And this insufficiency of air bubbles can trigger the cyano to thrive.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank beautifully clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 3-5 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

 

[jstabile316]

Not sure why you would counter a bacterial bloom with more bacteria but what is your concern now? The pictures don't look crazy imo (as far as cloudy water). You can change 100% of the water if necessary. Carbon should/could help. Wet skimming will remove more dirty water. What have you tried so far to clear it up

So far all I’ve done has changed about 75% of the water over a 2 week period ,changed out carbon a few times and put my skimmer on for the last 2 weeks ( wasn’t running one for the first month). My concerns are my corals are all browning out and look like ****. My sixline wrasse has been glass surfing all day since the tank became cloudy, Cyano has gone crazy and nothing I do seems to clear up the water.
( I’ll take better pics of the cloudy tank when I get home). The reason I started dosing microbacter 7 was because the owner at my reef shop told me that when I transferred tanks some of the bacteria might have died off.

 

[brandon429]

is this a bare bottom tank/no sand? was the prior tank bare bottom? hard to tell off pics, it looks bare bottom vs the classic deep sand bed

if there was / is sand, how did you transfer it

 

[TokenReefer]

I'd like to see what @brandon429 says because it may be more in depth, but if it was my tank and these things were happening, today I would Recalibrate my salinity checker. Mix up the proper amount of fresh saltwater. Drain the water down to an inch and refill with fresh clean water (with no bacteria blooming in it). Then see what happens, if the bloom comes back or not (I suspect it will not if no more bacteria is being added). Just my .02

 

[jstabile316]

is this a bare bottom tank/no sand? was the prior tank bare bottom? hard to tell off pics, it looks bare bottom vs the classic deep sand bed

if there was / is sand, how did you transfer it

New tank is bare bottom, old tank had about an inch of sand but about 6 months ago i started slowly removing the sand bed. So by the time I made the transfer my nuvo 10 was already bare bottom for 4-5 months .

 

[jstabile316]

So what do u guys think I should do? Large water change/ no water change? Add more bacteria or don’t add bacteria? Dose or don’t dose peroxide.The guy at my reef shop said I should stop doing water changes because my nutrients are bottoming out and told me to start dosing to bring po4 up and that’s what I’ve been doing for the last 5 days but still reading 0. Before the tank got cloudy for the first 2 weeks after transfer p04 was steady .04.

 

[brandon429]

Thats a really serious $ of corals you have there above. I was going to watch what others recommend. if it was my system there would be no testing or dosing for those params. it would be increased feed and water changes, no bottle bac added, sustained for 2 mos like a workout routine above steady state.


current steady state is getting those results above, so I'd step up work on your part/feed input and export/ vs dosing and hands off ways. I'm a busy tank rehabber vs a passive one, we get best results there.

it takes real dedication to sustain a + effort water change plus spot freeding routine for that tank for eight straight weeks, but it works to add coral mass. you already have best nano lights in reefing, ideal coral stock, my way would be reef tank CPR it would not be dosing and testing by guess.

there are really creative feeding options for some corals: removing and setting in a bowl then hitting with heavy food dose right on the polyp sits for an hour works for some, then rinse off with saltwater and set back in tank. A guy did this in 2004 on tank of the month at nano-reef.com with sun corals, and spawned so many from the positive mass they dotted up his entire micro reef with baby sun corals, I could find the thread in a few mins if needed. He couldnt input that much feed into a 2.5 gallon tank with a sandbed, so he fed his sun corals exclusively by lifting out the rock and blast feeding in a bowl weekly, the main tank hardly got any

the test kits you use likely can be found in comparison threads not agreeing with other test kits, nitrate being the worst, I'd imagine p04 is similar

responding to levels that aren't accurate to begin with, non digital test kits, is dangerous in my opinion if we track tank rehab threads

 

[brandon429]

there is also creative feeding options like a weighted cup or cap of some creative type, corals that are set on the floor of the tank in a group are capped off and food is injected into that cap via a small hole. this concentrates feed right in the coral group for that day, then when you lift off the capping the same amount of food you'd normally broadcast is now sent around the tank after target corals in distress had first go


that may be a hassle compared to other options, thats how I'd handle that much $ coral if it was mine, it would be through feed exercise and water in/out exercise on my part, not the tank's.

I have never in my life online/23 yrs now continual on the forums/seen this method fail to regenerate a small nano reef and bloom it's corals to problematic level growth


the reason I make the distinction between nano reef/small and medium tanks is because doing 100% water changes on a 5 gal nano is easy/

we do the water changes to flush all the clean feed through, its not just to change water.

 

[jstabile316]

Thats a really serious $ of corals you have there above. I was going to watch what others recommend. if it was my system there would be no testing or dosing for those params. it would be increased feed and water changes, no bottle bac added, sustained for 2 mos like a workout routine above steady state.


current steady state is getting those results above, so I'd step up work on your part/feed input and export/ vs dosing and hands off ways. I'm a busy tank rehabber vs a passive one, we get best results there.

it takes real dedication to sustain a + effort water change plus spot freeding routine for that tank for eight straight weeks, but it works to add coral mass. you already have best nano lights in reefing, ideal coral stock, my way would be reef tank CPR it would not be dosing and testing by guess.

there are really creative feeding options for some corals: removing and setting in a bowl then hitting with heavy food dose right on the polyp sits for an hour works for some, then rinse off with saltwater and set back in tank. A guy did this in 2004 on tank of the month at nano-reef.com with sun corals, and spawned so many from the positive mass they dotted up his entire micro reef with baby sun corals, I could find the thread in a few mins if needed. He couldnt input that much feed into a 2.5 gallon tank with a sandbed, so he fed his sun corals exclusively by lifting out the rock and blast feeding in a bowl weekly, the main tank hardly got any

the test kits you use likely can be found in comparison threads not agreeing with other test kits, nitrate being the worst, I'd imagine p04 is similar

responding to levels that aren't accurate to begin with, non digital test kits, is dangerous in my opinion if we track tank rehab

This sounds like route to go , I just feel like I’ve already been putting in the work and for some reason things are just not working out. Alk and po4 are Hanna checkers the rest of my test kits are salifert. My maintenance routine for this tank would be weekly 25% water change, clean glass and turkey baste rocks every few days, change filter floss 2x/week, change Chemipure blue n carbon monthly and clean pumps every few months. As far as nutrient import/export I feed fish 2 times a day, pellets when I get home from work and half a cube of frozen brine or mysis at night and feed 1/4 tsp of reef roids 1 or 2 times a week. For export I have a tunze 9001 skimmer, change filter floss 2x a week,Have some carbon and Chemipure blue and weekly 25% water changes. Is there anything else I should be doing ? Maybe add a second 25% water change in the middle of the week? I just picked up a intank fuge box and a fuge light was planning on adding some cheato to it.

 

[brandon429]

I would remove carbon and chemi blue

Those are added variables

The water change period eliminates the need for those due to raw export
If you get zero benefit at the two week mark you can consider other options and you'll never harm the tank by feeding it well and changing water for two weeks well well above norms

This utilizes bare bottom status: no clouding waste is kicked up upon pour back of the big breathing exercising water changes. It's exactly like a high protein bodybuilding run an actor would do two months before a movie

If you can't get viable change after trying a no harm option, then resort to testing and response and indirect items

Our method can't cause you dinos for example... other methods sure can and do. I give this a 90% chance of working


Here's a recent tank turnaround done just this way, for you to track as prediction for your reef. Chevy will update the thread over time
We are in fact approaching his eighth week/ inspection time lol:

 

[brandon429]

I give up

I have been reefing for almost a year and after countless kinds of coral I can’t seem to get anything to live. I have had SPS, LPS, softies and everything in between. Nothing I do seems to work. I religiously check my parameters and have them as close as I can to the optimal parameters of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[jstabile316]

I would remove carbon and chemi blue

Those are added variables

The water change period eliminates the need for those due to raw export
If you get zero benefit at the two week mark you can consider other options and you'll never harm the tank by feeding it well and changing water for two weeks well well above norms

This utilizes bare bottom status: no clouding waste is kicked up upon pour back of the big breathing exercising water changes. It's exactly like a high protein bodybuilding run an actor would do two months before a movie

If you can't get viable change after trying a no harm option, then resort to testing and response and indirect items

Our method can't cause you dinos for example... other methods sure can and do. I give this a 90% chance of working


Here's a recent tank turnaround done just this way, for you to track as prediction for your reef. Chevy will update the thread over time
We are in fact approaching his eighth week/ inspection time lol:

The problem with me doing large water changes is the huge alk difference my tank is running at 8.5 but my reef crystals mixes over 10. In the past I tried changing to Red Sea blue bucket the alk was where I wanted but calcium and mag were always low around 400 and 1200 so I just stuck with the cheaper salt. Can I bring the alk down on my new mixed saltwater somehow?

 

[TokenReefer]

The problem with me doing large water changes is the huge alk difference my tank is running at 8.5 but my reef crystals mixes over 10. In the past I tried changing to Red Sea blue bucket the alk was where I wanted but calcium and mag were always low around 400 and 1200 so I just stuck with the cheaper salt. Can I bring the alk down on my new mixed saltwater somehow?

There is.

I would consider one big change simply to address the bacterial bloom. Sorry tldr not sure what else you're considering; if the question was what to do to get rid of the bloom perhaps it's veered off course? Idk.. I've gotten past bact Bloom through a series of wc's and filtering/removal.

 

[brandon429]

no you would lower light intensity instead.

we never ever ever measure anything but temp and salinity in our rehab threads, but we always lower the light % power in accordance with the upcoming work. no reef tank is harmed by its overall light power reduced, all whites removed for a while. you can begin throughput changes after your light is bumped down.

 

[brandon429]

**I want you to see a massive thread doing what I'm recommending above, never messing with params but doing 100% water changes across any reef that wants to post


we do the big flushing changes because they have jacked up sandbeds

your reason is different: to flush clean feed through the system so you can increase its presence in suspension above steady-state, for eight weeks

either way this is fifty pages of not minding alk we just tell everyone to lower sun energy above the reef a while.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

that link at the very least provides data on 100% water changes across more than a hundred different reef tanks.

 

[jstabile316]

**I want you to see a massive thread doing what I'm recommending above, never messing with params but doing 100% water changes across any reef that wants to post


we do the big flushing changes because they have jacked up sandbeds

your reason is different: to flush clean feed through the system so you can increase its presence in suspension above steady-state, for eight weeks

either way this is fifty pages of not minding alk we just tell everyone to lower sun energy above the reef a while.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

that link at the very least provides data on 100% water changes across more than a hundred different reef tanks.

Thank you!!