Help with facial sores on QTed Hippo tang

BenConrad

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Hello all,
Wanted to get some input on these facial sores on my new blue Hippo tang. I suspect an injury followed by bacterial infection, but wanted to see what the community thinks.

This fish has been in my 40 gallon breeder QT tank for 11 days. Salinity 1.023, temp 77F, and ammonia controlled via seeded medium from my DT (including a couple 35% water changes). He is sharing the tank with a Whitetail Bristletooth, which were shipped together from the same vendor. Both have eaten well, have progressively gotten used to me, and have no overt signs of stress or heavy breathing.

Copper Power was brought up to 2.4ppm over 3 days and then maintained at 2.4-2.5ppm since then (Hanna checker). I noticed white protrusions on the Hippo's face bilaterally after about 2 days in QT. The video is from Wednesday last week (day 5 of QT). After a couple days of what seemed like stabilization, the sores have not seemed to improve and have slowly gotten larger. The photos are from today (Monday, day 11 of QT). My thought is that the Hippo injured his face on some cut pieces of PVC while trying to hide (I should sand these down for future cohorts), and now has progressed to a bacterial infection.

Note that from day 1, I have noticed some white spots that I suspect are ich, but am hoping those will be controlled and eliminated through continued copper treatment. Though there is some detritus in the close-up container pics, you can clearly see white spots over the body and fins.

To help with the facial sores, I went ahead with a 90 minute Ruby Reef Rally bath (1tsp/gallon) this morning. And, after a water change, dosed Kanaplex to the copper-medicated QT water. I do have Metroplex on hand, but wanted to hold off given the already medicated water. I may continue with daily RRR baths for good measure.

Do you all concur with this diagnosis and course of action? Any thoughts on what else this may be?

Thanks very much for your time!

-Ben 20220502_101211.jpg 20220502_113852.jpg
 

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vetteguy53081

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You have a double issue occurring here. Facial issue is a skin errosion (HLLE) but also notice it has parasites known as ich which are the white salt like grains on its body
I would first address the ich in a separate quarantine setting and treat with coppersafe for a full 30 days at 80.5 degrees -at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 monitored by a reliable copper test kit and no api brand either
Monitor ammonia while in quarantine and increase oxygen via air stone
After treatment, focus in diet which will help with hlle as well as maintaining good water quality
What are you feeding it?
 
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MnFish1

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Ok - so a couple bacteria produce a 'golden' appearance. But - yeah - It looks like a wound. Can you say - what is in the water now - copper, etc etc. Its not always good to mix medication - and - in fact - not clear that its needed - I'm going to phone a friend @Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

IMHO - it is a fish that should be isolated - in a hospital tank - with a broad spectrum antibiotic
 

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You have a double issue occurring here. Facial issue is a skin errosion (HLLE) but also notice it has parasites known as ich which are the white salt like grains on its body
I would first address the ich in a separate quarantine setting and treat with coppersafe for a full 30 days at 80.5 degrees -at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 monitored by a reliable copper test kit and no api brand either
Monitor ammonia while in quarantine and increase oxygen via air stone
After treatment, focus in diet which will help with hlle as well as maintaining good water quality
What are you feeding it?
I do not think that lesion is HLLE
 

MnFish1

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OH. Ben - and BTW - welcome to R2R - where you will get probably the best advice on the web from experienced reefers. I was concentrating on the yellow-colored section
 
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MnFish1

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@vetteguy53081 saw the white spots - that I ignored - focusing on the yellow lesion:). The yellow lesion IMHO - I something like an injury - with a bacterial infection - The spots - yeah - CI - the reason people QT to me - JMO - its not a good thing - I know thats probably not that helpful - but - just saying
 

MnFish1

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@vetteguy53081 saw the white spots - that I ignored - focusing on the yellow lesion:). The yellow lesion IMHO - I something like an injury - with a bacterial infection - The spots - yeah - CI - the reason people QT to me - JMO - its not a good thing - I know thats probably not that helpful - but - just saying
I would be treating with antibiotics - @Jay Hemdal
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hello all,
Wanted to get some input on these facial sores on my new blue Hippo tang. I suspect an injury followed by bacterial infection, but wanted to see what the community thinks.

This fish has been in my 40 gallon breeder QT tank for 11 days. Salinity 1.023, temp 77F, and ammonia controlled via seeded medium from my DT (including a couple 35% water changes). He is sharing the tank with a Whitetail Bristletooth, which were shipped together from the same vendor. Both have eaten well, have progressively gotten used to me, and have no overt signs of stress or heavy breathing.

Copper Power was brought up to 2.4ppm over 3 days and then maintained at 2.4-2.5ppm since then (Hanna checker). I noticed white protrusions on the Hippo's face bilaterally after about 2 days in QT. The video is from Wednesday last week (day 5 of QT). After a couple days of what seemed like stabilization, the sores have not seemed to improve and have slowly gotten larger. The photos are from today (Monday, day 11 of QT). My thought is that the Hippo injured his face on some cut pieces of PVC while trying to hide (I should sand these down for future cohorts), and now has progressed to a bacterial infection.

Note that from day 1, I have noticed some white spots that I suspect are ich, but am hoping those will be controlled and eliminated through continued copper treatment. Though there is some detritus in the close-up container pics, you can clearly see white spots over the body and fins.

To help with the facial sores, I went ahead with a 90 minute Ruby Reef Rally bath (1tsp/gallon) this morning. And, after a water change, dosed Kanaplex to the copper-medicated QT water. I do have Metroplex on hand, but wanted to hold off given the already medicated water. I may continue with daily RRR baths for good measure.

Do you all concur with this diagnosis and course of action? Any thoughts on what else this may be?

Thanks very much for your time!

-Ben 20220502_101211.jpg 20220502_113852.jpg

That seems to be the wrong color and location to be HLLE. I also don't think it is an injury because it is bilateral...strike injuries are almost always unilateral, in a specific location, not mirrored side to side. Hepatus tangs do have deep ores in that location, maybe those got infected?

I would skip the metroplex, it is mainly anti-protozoal in its action, and the copper will deal with those better.

Antibiotics take 5 to 7 days to really work. Which one to use is always a guess, since we don't run sensitivity studies. I would go and treat the Kanaplex the maximum of 3x as directed.

Jay
 
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vetteguy53081

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Now that I’m at a full screen, yes bacterial lesion. Neoplex would be my choice
 

4davegill

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Looks like ich and an infection. Tangs are proned to these because of a thinner slime coat. If it had the infection inside, its immune system probably made it susceptible to ich as well. Just my guess. Lots of people here with many more brain wrinkles than me.
 
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BenConrad

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Thank you all for the input! And appreciate the welcome @MnFish1! I have been in the hobby for 10+ years and have almost never felt the need to post a question myself, given the massive wealth of info across R2R, Reef Central, and beyond. I'm humbled by you all's efforts to help people here. :)

Currently in the water is 2.47ppm of Copper Power and a single dose of Kanaplex (1 level scoop/5 gallons).

I'll continue on with the max of 3x Kanaplex per @Jay Hemdal 's suggestion, and also plan to grab some Neoplex in case of no improvement. Interesting idea about the ores getting infected (these would be the nostrils/nares, correct?). As you point out, Jay, the injury hypothesis is less likely given the bilateral presentation.

Unless anyone sees an issue with it, I may also continue with an RRR bath/a day for a couple more days to be safe. This seems to be well tolerated. (Apologies to future readers trying to narrow down a single course of action... :grimacing-face:)

I'll report back with updates. Always bummed to see threads that die without an outcome!
 
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BenConrad

BenConrad

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Hello again,
Writing back with an update on this Hippo tang. Both he and his QT mate (white tail bristletooth) have continued to eat very well (nori, Masstick, tetra marine flakes, seaweed extreme pellets, and variety of SF Bay brand frozen foods). The facial sores have appeared to reduce in size, though have not gone away - see longitudinal pics over this period (today is Day 26). Higher resolution version here https://www.reef2reef.com/media/hippo_qt-png.7532/full

Here are some notes on my actions:
  • Copper Power has been maintained at around 2.45ppm (with readings from 2.33-2.55 via Hanna Checker) over the entire QT period.
  • Kanaplex was dosed to QT on days 11, 13, and 15.
  • Hippo underwent a Ruby Reef Rally bath on days 11, 12, and 16.
  • Freshwater dip conducted on day 24 to check for flukes (negative from what I could tell).
  • Have done four ~35% water changes since I last posted. Temp and salinity have been stable and no concern of ammonia levels (monitored by two alert badges).
Over the last several days, the white spots on Hippo's body have increased and seems it could be a skin reaction from copper (surely could not be ich at this point, right?). There are reports of this kind of reaction to copper in Hippos on R2R. I have not seen any scratching from the Hippo or the Bristletooth through entire QT. The Bristletooth has also shown no skin issues/white spots at all.

Would you go to another antibiotic (e.g. Neoplex) to help the facial sores continue to heal? Should I go ahead and finish out 30 days of copper? After copper, I was considering a round or two of Prazipro, but also want to get this Hippo cleared up. Not sure if Prazi would be good to mix with another antibiotic.

Any thoughts or recommendations appreciated!

hippo_QT.png
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Hello again,
Writing back with an update on this Hippo tang. Both he and his QT mate (white tail bristletooth) have continued to eat very well (nori, Masstick, tetra marine flakes, seaweed extreme pellets, and variety of SF Bay brand frozen foods). The facial sores have appeared to reduce in size, though have not gone away - see longitudinal pics over this period (today is Day 26). Higher resolution version here https://www.reef2reef.com/media/hippo_qt-png.7532/full

Here are some notes on my actions:
  • Copper Power has been maintained at around 2.45ppm (with readings from 2.33-2.55 via Hanna Checker) over the entire QT period.
  • Kanaplex was dosed to QT on days 11, 13, and 15.
  • Hippo underwent a Ruby Reef Rally bath on days 11, 12, and 16.
  • Freshwater dip conducted on day 24 to check for flukes (negative from what I could tell).
  • Have done four ~35% water changes since I last posted. Temp and salinity have been stable and no concern of ammonia levels (monitored by two alert badges).
Over the last several days, the white spots on Hippo's body have increased and seems it could be a skin reaction from copper (surely could not be ich at this point, right?). There are reports of this kind of reaction to copper in Hippos on R2R. I have not seen any scratching from the Hippo or the Bristletooth through entire QT. The Bristletooth has also shown no skin issues/white spots at all.

Would you go to another antibiotic (e.g. Neoplex) to help the facial sores continue to heal? Should I go ahead and finish out 30 days of copper? After copper, I was considering a round or two of Prazipro, but also want to get this Hippo cleared up. Not sure if Prazi would be good to mix with another antibiotic.

Any thoughts or recommendations appreciated!

hippo_QT.png

Thanks for the very complete follow-up, I just wish I had as complete advice for you!

The lesions do look a little better, but at least, not any worse. The white spots should be ich, given the copper. Blue tangs are prone to developing mucus plugs, often when dose with copper, as a stress reaction. Those are harmless. However, those are also usually larger than these spots.

If the fish is stable where it is at, I would try Neoplex.

Jay
 
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