High ammonia

[huckilt]

I have a 26 gal bow front with about a 10 gal sump one clown fish a few snails (2 turbos and 3 nassarius) a Pom Pom Xenia and a hammer coral the tank has been running since March first fish in July coral in aug. I only feed a tiny pinch of micro pellets twice a day only enough that can be eaten in about a min by the one fish. My ammonia is always high at least my test kit says it is. It may be an old test kit. I have undetectable nitrates and phosphates with api test kits. My dkh was 8.6 last night calcium at 440 and I musta overdosed msg the last go round it was in the 1500’s. I’ve been growing a funny fuzzy/slimy opaque white algae. My hammer is growing I’m not sure how fast corals grow so it’s hard for me to say if it’s growing quickly or slowly. I’d assume my Xenia is growing real slow as it’s barely half covering the plug it came on and isn’t much bigger than when purchased. I have a feeling the two problems are possibly related. My water is always crystal clear. I was running straight ro up until oct. when I got a add on di with meters which showed my ro was producing 15ppm water. Recently switched to rpm salt as reef crystals was kinda high in ammonia so my levels wouldn’t ever drop with water changes. But shouldn’t the Beni. Bacteria be converting the ammonia into nitrite and nitrate? I used microbacter 7 when I added bio cubes to the sump in aug. sorry this is kinda all over the place trying to give as much info as possible. I do weekly if not biweekly water changes of no less than ten gallons no more than 15. usually closer to 15 Trying to combat the ammonia problem. I have a hob protein skimmer and also run a diy algae scrubber not growing much algae.. jus brown and slimy have a filter sack with neocarbonit- z in the recommended amount. My waters always crystal clear my sump is clean as can be but my dt has the algae growth. Also no coral one algae growth yet one of the turbos came with some but it got overgrown by algae and what look like little flowers almost lol. I run 2 Koralia 600 and 1 koralia nano power head and have a msg drive sump pump not sure the gph. Have 2 50w nicrew Amazon special led lights. If anyone can give me any info on what the algae is and best way to attack it and also what’s the deal with my ammonia? My fish don’t seem stressed snails are never at the top of the waterline never even on the glass. But with the rate of growth on my Xenia I feel like somethings not right. Unless I got lucky and got one that won’t take over my tank in a few months. Cause it hasn’t yet. The hammer I see obvious growth of new hammers flesh going down the skeleton to the plug and you can see where it’s gonna branch off in the next few weeks. I dunno if I’m expecting to much or receiving too little growth. My nassarius snails come out from under the substrate soon as they smell pellets in the water. So everybody seems healthy jus my test kits results and algae are giving me scary thoughts(tank crash) that I don’t want happening. Once again I apologize for this being so long winded jus trying to give all the info I can if I missed anything please let me know and I’ll do my best to give you more info

 

[tsouth]

One portion I caught that seemed suspicious is that you had said your Reef Crystals salt was high in ammonia. I would very much assume that it's not the salt that has ammonia, but rather your ro/di water. Check for ammonia in your ro/di water and let us know if you capture any there. It would make sense to be honest.

 

[brandon429]

Post tank pics, it’s a test misread. No system runs high in ammonia after cycling, and no cycle takes longer than a cycling chart shows considering the bacteria boost as well


extra proof will be your living fish and corals. They cannot survive free ammonia uncontrolled. Living animals rules out sources of ammonia such as top-off water or lack of surface area etc, I cannot think of one existing mechanism in a reef that would allow the condition.

a firm unchanging rule is that no cycle weakens or degrades over time, even if you stop feeding altogether which you haven’t. We can 100% rule out an impending ammonia crash.

living animals doesn’t mean your top-off water has to be free of ammonia, common well water might not be. Living animals means you aren’t adding a lethal dose, if ammonia is in the added water then it’s being oxidized easily as systems will do, and your animals live due to the cycle working.

 

[plankton]

+1 on posting tank pic. I don’t remember which ammonia test kit you are using but something is off of you are reading ammonia from fresh batch of salt mix.

 

[brandon429]

I remember Randy’s post about some mixes having organics and mixing up a little free ammonia

but also referencing the ‘adding ammonia to my reef tank’ thread, they literally dose ammonia into running reefs while seneye tracks uptake rates, there’s no harm even if we did add some from X source. The living animals and months long running is the final say and pics will show the stated conditions that prove the tank is ok.

post the actual pic of the test kit pls we need this example in other ammonia tracing threads, such as this one. high ammonia test readings affects thousands of aquarists, the readings are wrong.

Elevated Ammonia

My 60g fish-only with dry rock has been running for two months now, and completed its cycle over a month ago. But lately the ammonia has crept up to .1 in the past few days. I have been feeding the five fish two light meals per day, and am trying to get a pod population going so I feed daily...

www.reef2reef.com

what I like most about updated cycling rules applied to ammonia tracing threads is we don’t have to see pics of the tank or the test kit to apply the rules. The pics merely confirm the predictions. Key terms in first post that wrapped up the matter:

-9 mos duration tank, see ammonia section on a cycle chart, ten days max especially with speedy bacteria from a bottle

-this tank has rocks and or sand for attachment points assumed, who reefs without those ~ and even if this is a quarantine, it took massive surface area somewhere in the tank to run + feed added for most of a year, we know things about your tank nh3 levels because of your description details but not the test kit info.

-living animals for months doing fine, the alarm is solely from a non digital ammonia test kit where search results show getting the -zero- reading to be the rarity, the condition reporting stuck ammonia is the common outcome (and a prime reason for new cycling rules, ends confusion)

p.s.
on the rare chance this is seneye lol then we also have a seneye misread thread for those unlucky owners of the $200 device. the rules do not flex even for seneye but seneye is the machine helping us define new rules as most users report a highly consistent conversion rate for ammonia vs all over the place reporting from color tube kits.

 

[huckilt]

Thank you all for your replies I’ll test my ro/di in the am and get back to you with the results. I know there’s some hair algae in there but what’s the fuzzy looking stuff? And maybe my test kits are jus too old? I’m gonna buy some new nitrate ammonia and phosphate test kits. I have hanna checkers for my cal and alk using Red Sea for mag. And they all have new reagents but my ammonia nitrate and phosphate kits are old api kits. Any suggestions for some new kits? I’m leaning towards Hanna for the phosphate and nitrate but should I get low range or ultra low range? Also a good ammonia kit? Red Sea ok? I like the mag. Kit I currently have.

 

[tsouth]

+1 on Hannah for both P and N. ULR for the Nitrate

 

[huckilt]

I ended up testing and I’m showing >.25ppm ammonia in my ro/di water. What would I need to do to get it all the way down to or near zero?

 

[kenchilada]

Could be a false positive. Or your water may have chloramines. Does your RODI have a carbon block filter? What is the TDS of your product water?

Try buying water from the LFS for a while to see if anything changes.

 

[pseudorand]

Buy a Seachem ammonia alert and get it in the tank for 24 hours. If it says you have ammonia, then reply back here. Otherwise don't trust your other test kit.

I struggled with the same thing. Turns out API (and probably many others) aren't very accurate at the very low range (<=0.25ppm). They also measure combined ammonia and ammonium, the later of which is much less toxic (though I think the ratio is a function of pH and temp, so should be a fine proxy). Now I swear by seachem -- other test kits are just for cycling before you have any non-microscopic living things in the tank.

 

[brandon429]

It’s is 100% a false positive. See the open coral..the clownfish eating, swimming, not dying

non reef water had no nitrification to overreport. Since your cycle is done, you don’t need to test for ammonia. This is added on page six now to our false stuck cycle thread in the new keepers forum, where we show all new keepers how to avoid false stuck cycle headaches. Your cycle is complete.

 

[brandon429]

It’s not that some reefs can have high ammonia in your set of variables, it’s that not a single one has ever had it happen since the dawn of reefing, it can’t occur, ammonia cannot drift out of spec post-cycle.

it can occur if you removed all your rocks and sand however.

Or if fish die the system can reach .25 for an hour, and then it goes back down or climbs higher but it cannot just hold. Not even dead fish can make you hover at .25, that cannot happen among activated rocks and sand. Nh3 is active and changing constantly, the fact your kit never showed another reading was clue no. 15

if this was 2006 every poster here would agree your bacteria are dying

fourteen years of patterning has made an impression on a few of us though

 

[brandon429]

We want readers to see how the condition was impossible going only off your first sentence, that’s how updated 2020 cycling works and it doesn’t have any hesitation


there aren’t some reefs out there who can have high ammonia under these conditions, there are none and none ever existed in a display reef.


every single stuck cycle thread google returns on a search is a false read exactly like this post.

 

[Garf]

Got any snails ? Or hermit crabs? Or any algae munchers?
Hobby grade test kits have always been for guidance only, mainly trend indicators.
How are you checking salinity?

 

[Spieg]

I don't trust API tests much at all. And FWIW, your photos look more like bacterial growth than algae to me.

 

[huckilt]

Also I had a period in I wanna say aug maybe sept where my tank was overrun with pods, pods running around everywhere and now there’s none? Also any input on why my dt looks like it does yet my sump is crystal clear? even the LR in it is free of any algae.

It’s not that some reefs can have high ammonia in your set of variables, it’s that not a single one has ever had it happen since the dawn of reefing, it can’t occur, ammonia cannot drift out of spec post-cycle.

it can occur if you removed all your rocks and sand however.

Or if fish die the system can reach .25 for an hour, and then it goes back down or climbs higher but it cannot just hold. Not even dead fish can make you hover at .25, that cannot happen among activated rocks and sand. Nh3 is active and changing constantly, the fact your kit never showed another reading was clue no. 15

if this was 2006 every poster here would agree your bacteria are dying

fourteen years of patterning has made an impression on a few of us though

I do get different readings the ro/do water is showing .25 but the sw is testing at 1.0-2.0 before my weekly/bi weekly water changes

 

[huckilt]

Got any snails ? Or hermit crabs? Or any algae munchers?
Hobby grade test kits have always been for guidance only, mainly trend indicators.
How are you checking salinity?

I have 2 turbos and 3 nassarius snails. I use a refractometer with brightwell calibration fluid.

 

[huckilt]

I don't trust API tests much at all. And FWIW, your photos look more like bacterial growth than algae to me.

Yea that’s kinda why I feel like it’s my test kit. I live in a small town over an hour drive from the nearest lfs so in a pinch wal mart is the best we got and they don’t have much at all. I found some strip tests that also showed high ammonia that would drop with water changes that’s why I’ve been so stumped with this whole ordeal. I guess I’m jus gonna have to break down and order some new test kits tonight instead of trying to rely on everyone else to try and guess at what’s going on. I was more curious on what the growth is so I can make a plan for eradication. Cause I can tell things are healthy and not being affected by ammonia poisoning. I had a problem a while back with brass fittings corroding which killed two of my snails and the were obviously in distress at the time always at the water line like they wanted out but since I’ve corrected that problem and did many large water changes I haven’t seen the same behavior. The corals even took a dive at that time and have since made a great recovery especially the hammer.

 

[lapin]

Sounds like you need a new clean up crew.

 

[huckilt]

We want readers to see how the condition was impossible going only off your first sentence, that’s how updated 2020 cycling works and it doesn’t have any hesitation


there aren’t some reefs out there who can have high ammonia under these conditions, there are none and none ever existed in a display reef.


every single stuck cycle thread google returns on a search is a false read exactly like this post.

I’m not saying it’s a stuck cycle I know my tank has cycled as I watched it go through many phases of algae growth and die off, pods and other indicators. I was thinking something was out of balance causing the ammonia to reach higher levels than the bacteria could process giving me a high ammonia reading. I’m no expert in water chemistry or marine biology or whatever you need to be knowledgeable in to know that high ammonia CANNOT exist In a reef display tank. Sorry for posting such a stupid question filling up the google search bar. I figured that’s what the internet is for, learning things by posting a question for the millions of other internet users to answer for you. Can you at least answer me what the internet and google search is for since you couldn’t answer any of my other questions? Lol