How to successfully keep SPS Corals!

[Scott.h]

Salt is Fritz, which I can't recall offhand what parameters on that are supposed to be. I don't put a ton of stock in any Mg test really, as I don't think any of them are super accurate. No "buddy" around to test and nearest LFS is over an hour away so...I'll just roll with it for now. If nothing else helps sps color then I'll worry more. I think on the spectrum of things that could be causing issues, Mg isn't as high as some others. :)

ive found ca and mg to be the most common errors with hobby grade test kits compared to triton. The easiest way to sort that is to test the way you normally would and get a triton test. Just figure in that inaccuracy. Triton may help you sort an underlined issue also.

Lux is easy enough to convert without a par meter. Just post up your numbers.

Very interesting to see all the data in one place!! :) BUT as Mark Twain said....there are lies, dang lies and then there's statistics, like averages. ;) It can be tricky to draw conclusions from them – even deceiving.

I do think it's noteworthy how many near-zero entries there are for no3 and po4 on the r2r list and how many (comparatively) high-nutrient entries there are in the other list.

It's also noteworthy how few conclusions were drawn in the article from the Paletta data. It seemed striking to me.

I don't know what conclusions can be drawn and I know it would even more interesting to see a list replete with lighting and flow data. It would be really interesting if there was a more useful way to list flow than GPH which is a very aseptic number....but it's all we have.





All I can add is that ever since GFO and carbon-dosing became ubiquitous in reefing I've been dubious of them. To put it simply, I just don't think you can turn a high-nutrient ecosystem into a low-nutrient ecosystem just by throwing in a little vinegar and rust. That would be equivalent to magic. :)

Some related thoughts here:

• Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
• A Nitrate Dosing Calculator For Better Tank Health (And Better Coral Color!)

I agree specifically to the later. I got to the point I was chasing low values just because everyone else was. Once I stopped all the nonesense, including gfo, I realized I was trying to fix a problem I didn't have. That said, that same tank once ran half the nutrients with a lot more problems. So I think the key for people struggling is to give the tools for them to best analyze their own system. If they are experiencing a problem there is a scientific reason behind it every time. We all know what works for one may not work for others. And no two tanks run the same, even in the same house. Heck, that's half of the fun. If we didn't have something to mess with we'd collectively finding a cure for cancer, or something :)

 

[KJoFan]

ive found ca and mg to be the most common errors with hobby grade test kits compared to triton. The easiest way to sort that is to test the way you normally would and get a triton test. Just figure in that inaccuracy. Triton may help you sort an underlined issue also.

Lux is easy enough to convert without a par meter. Just post up your numbers.

I'm familiar with lux conversions. New light will be going over the tank if not tonight, some day this week, once it's up I'll get some new lux readings and see where I'm at. This should have better/more even spread of light than previous as well, so I'm hoping even with sps on the rack along the side, they'll receive a bit more light than before. So, stay tuned for some light readings here soon.

 

[KJoFan]

Some pics of some sps. Only alteration was orange filter to cut the blue:

This one has the best color by far and oddly enough started completely bleached. Supposed to be a de fuego:

Red dragon looking...I don't know:

 

[Scott.h]

Some pics of some sps. Only alteration was orange filter to cut the blue:

This one has the best color by far and oddly enough started completely bleached. Supposed to be a de fuego:

Red dragon looking...I don't know:

The only problem I see it that you need to quit wasting growth and get them off the rack and on to the rocks!

 

[KJoFan]

The only problem I see it that you need to quit wasting growth and get them off the rack and on to the rocks!

I really should go ahead and place some on the rocks, more centered under the light and see what happens. Worse that can happen is they RTN. That de fuego has been encrusting on the rack for awhile, but recently shown some fast encrusting, like within the past few days that I've noticed.

These have mostly all been on that rack for...months. Maybe that's one of my missteps?

 

[Scott.h]

I really should go ahead and place some on the rocks, more centered under the light and see what happens. Worse that can happen is they RTN. That de fuego has been encrusting on the rack for awhile, but recently shown some fast encrusting, like within the past few days that I've noticed.

These have mostly all been on that rack for...months. Maybe that's one of my missteps?

I don't think it's a misstep other then that extra growth on the rack would have been permanent on a rock. Maybe use the lux meter to give them the same readings after they are moved. You may be surprised that they get more light on the side of the tank due to reflection off the glass then at the same depth on the rocks.

 

[jon evans]

trying to go through every page of this forum to find out when lighting switched from t5 or mh to leds lol

any radion users with sps heavy tanks want to say hi

 

[mcarroll]

trying to go through every page of this forum to find out when lighting switched from t5 or mh to leds lol

Do you mean "when" as in the history of the hobby?

Arguably it's been a gradual process since the PFO Solaris.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of tanks actually run which these days. :)

 

[Scott.h]

trying to go through every page of this forum to find out when lighting switched from t5 or mh to leds lol

any radion users with sps heavy tanks want to say hi

I think it's fair to say anyone that's been in the hobby has dabbled with each form of lighting at one point or another. Many jumped on the led bandwagon early on and and went back to what they were using prior. Once led technology got better switched again. I think we can also agree that each form has advantages and disadvantages. If done correctly any form works well. It really comes down to how much do you want to spend, and what is visually attractive to you.

 

[jon evans]

I think it's fair to say anyone that's been in the hobby has dabbled with each form of lighting at one point or another. Many jumped on the led bandwagon early on and and went back to what they were using prior. Once led technology got better switched again. I think we can also agree that each form has advantages and disadvantages. If done correctly any form works well. It really comes down to how much do you want to spend, and what is visually attractive to you.

Exactly right. I just bought myself a radios xr15 gen 4 and love it only had it a few days now... My sps liked my giesman bulbs better but hopefully the acclimation goes well... New to sps side of corals they haven't been kind as of yet

 

[Scott.h]

Exactly right. I just bought myself a radios xr15 gen 4 and love it only had it a few days now... My sps liked my giesman bulbs better but hopefully the acclimation goes well... New to sps side of corals they haven't been kind as of yet

Par meter for acclimation. Or lux meter at least. A lot cheaper then replacing corals

 

[pdiehm]

Tank is cycled. Clowns added. Working on dialing in the light.

So if I understand BRS, the prime range for SPS par is 250-350. Using that, I broke out my seneye and dabbled with the various setting.

The set up is simple. Photon 48 (version 1, 90 degree optics) sits about 13" over the water surface on top of my canopy. The distance to the rocks, I am unsure about, but its well over 24". It's probably close to 40" to the bottom of the tank.

Anyhows, according to Reefbreeders, the SPS recommendation is 60 Channel 1, 51, Channel 2. This actually only gave me a PAR of about 200 on my rocks, touching 230 at the highest points. If I go to the Sunny setting (100/50), this gives me about 320-340 on the rocks, with a spot touching 380. Corners are in the 80-90 range, dead center bottom is roughly 200-220.

Do I keep it at 100/50 (mind you it's only touching 100/50 for 30 minutes. Surrounded by 30 minutes each side at 99/50. essentially it's 4 hours of at least 80% channel 1, 40% channel 2. Channel 1 (mostly blues) is on for 12 hours. Channel 2 (whites primarily) is on for 9 hours, so I have an hour and a half of blues prior to the whites kicking in.

Now, since I just literally got finished with the cycle today....I'm not planning on adding any corals for awhile...I have time to play with the light and get it dialed in.

The burning question is...do I follow ReefBreeders SPS recommendation? or do I follow the Seneye and 100/50? I'm brand spanking new to the lighting game. If my numbers are too high (or too low) let me know. I did toy with taking the optics off, but at 12-13" over the water surface, a ton of light will spill out of the tank, and as you can see in the pic, the tank is pretty well lit up.

 

[bif24701]

Stability
ALK
Salt
Cal
Mag
Flow
Light

 

[kennedpa]

I really should go ahead and place some on the rocks, more centered under the light and see what happens. Worse that can happen is they RTN. That de fuego has been encrusting on the rack for awhile, but recently shown some fast encrusting, like within the past few days that I've noticed.

These have mostly all been on that rack for...months. Maybe that's one of my missteps?

FWIW flow is much lower near the glass (useful cross flow). That's more important than light, chances are your well above the amount they need to thrive PAR wise. Get them off the rack or put the rack out into better flow. secured to the rocks if you're not sure where to mount yet. With that said the "time it takes" to get where you want will be a lot longer in a poor flow area. 2 MP10's (not sure your tank size) are OK, but those are very directional with flow. Personally, I have at least one gyre in all my frag tanks (no display right now).

 

[KJoFan]

FWIW flow is much lower near the glass (useful cross flow). That's more important than light, chances are your well above the amount they need to thrive PAR wise. Get them off the rack or put the rack out into better flow. secured to the rocks if you're not sure where to mount yet. With that said the "time it takes" to get where you want will be a lot longer in a poor flow area. 2 MP10's (not sure your tank size) are OK, but those are very directional with flow. Personally, I have at least one gyre in all my frag tanks (no display right now).

Thanks for the input. I have actually since cleared most frags off the rack and placed them for better or for worse on the rocks. The only things on a rack now are the ones I thought just looked too poor to even bother with, we'll see if they perk up and go from there, and some new arrivals I'll let settle a bit and then place. I think my goal now is stop stop leaving frags on racks for months. Give them a couple weeks maybe on the rack and then go ahead and place them.

The MP10's are on an IM40, so size wise should provide enough flow, though as you say, directional. I had a gyre on a previous tank and wasn't a huge fan, though thinking of giving them another try. On my larger tank I have 2x Tunze 6095's which put out a ton of flow, though I'm struggling so far with placing/pointing them so they give good overall flow and don't either A) blast something or an area of rock work inadvertently and B) don't cause a sandstorm. It's a work in progress and making me consider the gyre, though I don't know if that will solve anything.

I need to grab some lux numbers for the light just to see where I am now that I have my permanent light in place and at settings I want to keep except to perhaps increase intensity over time.

 

[kennedpa]

If it's coming off the rock you're not mounting it well. Just mount them better.

I would put the others out too. They're either gong to make it in great conditions and if they don't they weren't going to anyway.

As far as flow, I have two xf130 gyres on a 40B that's all SPS frags in my grow out system. Even with those blasting if they frags are near the edges in certain spots they don't get adequate flow. I have used MP10s. I have one in a nem tank with other whatever corals. There's also a gyre in that tank.

Avoid the sandstorm by keeping the pumps 4-6 inches under the water, point them up at a 45 degree angle, and let the current blast around. Just mount stuff better. I like using the putty with superglue. Putty for foundation and superglue the plug/frag to the putty.

 

[kennedpa]

Also curious what lux meter are you using?

 

[KJoFan]

If it's coming off the rock you're not mounting it well. Just mount them better.

I would put the others out too. They're either gong to make it in great conditions and if they don't they weren't going to anyway.

As far as flow, I have two xf130 gyres on a 40B that's all SPS frags in my grow out system. Even with those blasting if they frags are near the edges in certain spots they don't get adequate flow. I have used MP10s. I have one in a nem tank with other whatever corals. There's also a gyre in that tank.

Avoid the sandstorm by keeping the pumps 4-6 inches under the water, point them up at a 45 degree angle, and let the current blast around. Just mount stuff better. I like using the putty with superglue. Putty for foundation and superglue the plug/frag to the putty.

I am not having an issue with frags coming off the rock when mounted...I'm not sure what gave you that idea? o_O

I am keeping the pumps several inches down and aiming them somewhat toward the surface, but I also want to be mindful of making sure the surface gets to flow toward the overflow for adequate surface skimming. It'll get there, just takes fine tuning until I'm happy with it. Or maybe I just insist on tinkering with placement. :)

As for lux meter, this is the one: https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter-LX1...500902832&sr=8-3&keywords=dr.+meter+lux+meter

 

[mcarroll]

The set up is simple. Photon 48 (version 1, 90 degree optics) sits about 13" over the water surface on top of my canopy. The distance to the rocks, I am unsure about, but its well over 24". It's probably close to 40" to the bottom of the tank.

It might help to know that 90º lenses create a spread that's equal to their height.

So 13" off the water equals 13" of spread at the water surface. If it's 40", then there's a 40" spread. (Consider the tank walls as mirrors to get an idea of what happens to the "extra" width. :)

For an example, here's a diagram I did of Kessils where you can see the effects from the reflection (only roughly accurate):

 

[pdiehm]

It might help to know that 90º lenses create a spread that's equal to their height.

So 13" off the water equals 13" of spread at the water surface. If it's 40", then there's a 40" spread. (Consider the tank walls as mirrors to get an idea of what happens to the "extra" width. :)

For an example, here's a diagram I did of Kessils where you can see the effects from the reflection (only roughly accurate):

So with my tank being 18" wide, I am only getting 13" of spread front to back?

In laymen terms? Do I leave the 90's on or take them off for 120 degree? If the 90's will work, I will leave them on, because last thing I want is to create extra work :)