Hydros Maven is Delayed

[cowfootball]

I spent the last 30+ years building networks… I am or have been a Cisco, HP/Aruba, Ruckus, etc. partner. You can have the best APs in the world, interference is environmental. But, more importantly the client chipsets, antennas and software stacks in most of the IoT devices are garbage.

For equipment such as an aquarium controller, wired Ethernet is exponentially more appropriate and reliable, especially if the connection is required for functionality or critical control.

I'm a triple CCIE and I think 99% of the time you can overcome environmental limitations.

I totally agree IoT stuff tends to be garbage but the Hydros stuff is reliable enough because the WiFi is totally optional. The cloud checkins are just for data and configuration and always bluetooth have a bluetooth backup. TX retries aren't an issue since it's not real time and a couple of failures here and there isn't an issue. I haven't had any issues where I e.g., had to completely repair it like is common with some other IoT manufacturers.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I'm a triple CCIE and I think 99% of the time you can overcome environmental limitations.

Sure on a Cisco exam… (sorry had to)

Real world, especially at the consumer level in a high density (every neighbor has an AP or three, as well as 10 IoT devices 2 wireless printers and their Comcast router all stepping on each other… but you already know that

I totally agree IoT stuff tends to be garbage but the Hydros stuff is reliable enough...

I have not taken one apart to look at the chipset. Nonetheless, my point stands in the context it was made. I would prefer to see these devices have a hard Ethernet connection, same with my Profilux.

I don’t keep up any certification any more…thank goodness.

 

[Daftendire]

Looking forward to the maven, if it proves reliable. However, my experience with the launch controller and getting a stable wifi connection was horrendous at best. It took setting up another dedicated router to get it to work. There are endless threads of connectivity issues with these hydros devices. I would much prefer a reliable hardwired connection.

 

[n2585722]

Looking forward to the maven, if it proves reliable. However, my experience with the launch controller and getting a stable wifi connection was horrendous at best. It took setting up another dedicated router to get it to work. There are endless threads of connectivity issues with these hydros devices. I would much prefer a reliable hardwired connection.

I have not had any issues with my Hydros controllers and the wifi. I have 16 of them already. I did originally have issues with the wifi devices like the wifi strips, but I eventually changed out my router over a year ago and I have not had an issue since then. The controllers in a collective communicate via the command bus so it is a hardwired connection. I can unplug my router and the controllers will continue to control the tank. I would need to use the emergency mode which uses bluetooth to access them when the router is unplugged. I would loose communications with the wifi strips with no router but I usually loose internet access and not wifi. In those cases the wifi strips would still communicate with the controllers. I have been without internet for 5 days straight before. At that time I had to use my phone with the wifi turned off to access them using bluetooth but I was still able to access them and check things out. I could even override outputs from off, auto or on if I needed to do that for some reason. The issue with a wired connection is each controller would have to have it's own wired connection since they all communicate with the cloud on their own. That would be 16 wired connections just for the Hydros controllers. I don't think I want to have than many wired connections just for the Hydros collective.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have not had any issues with my Hydros controllers and the wifi. I have 16 of them already.

Wifi is environment dependent. There are just so many variables. Eliminating wired ethernet only serves to reduce cost and increase margin. These are not inexpensive devices, they should have wired ethernet, period. The same with Profilux.

 

[KStatefan]

Wifi is environment dependent. There are just so many variables. Eliminating wired ethernet on serves to reduce cost and increase margin. These are not inexpensive devices, they should have wired ethernet, period. The same with Profilux.

I would pay for an addon card for my P4 to have wired ethernet.

 

[SneaksMcdoogle]

Wifi is environment dependent. There are just so many variables. Eliminating wired ethernet on serves to reduce cost and increase margin. These are not inexpensive devices, they should have wired ethernet, period. The same with Profilux.

I agree I would like a wired port however I think it would probably affect the Ip rating they look for in the controllers they sell. I’m far from a mechanical engineer however if they are looking for water proofing and corrosion resistance, as well as repairable by the customer/shop then I can see them not adding it.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture Verified Sponsor]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-mindstream-is-dead-im-getting-mine-soon.621730/
Same-same?

 

[BeanAnimal]

They are only IP-65. (dust, spray) - they are not "waterproof".

But let's back up here. CV claims the controllers are IP-65. I assume they can show certification for each device, and would hope that they don't just slap the rating on their items... but let's ignore that.

That rating applies to the device itself. That means that those connectors will not allow water or dust ingress. It does not mean that the cords plugged into the device are (or have to be) IP-65 rated.

What that means -- Unless those BNCs, DINs and other cords are sealed, and the connectors have IP-65 rated seals (gaskets, glans, o-rings, whatever) then the IP-65 rating is kind of moot. Water can't enter the controller, but it can still enter connectors and create a short. Tossing a $2 IP65 RJ connector on their wouldn't change a thing.

The same with the 120V cord/plug devices - there is no reasonable (cost effective) way to create an IP65 system when it comes to this price and class of device. So the 120V ports may be IP65 but the 120V pins can still short if exposed to salt water.

 

[WayneTheUrchin]

I wish they'd have a separate box that had command bus to ethernet and you could just add that to your collective if you wanted to hardwire it.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I wish they'd have a separate box that had command bus to ethernet and you could just add that to your collective if you wanted to hardwire it.

And why not toss on a few random functions and name the box something obscure and irrelevant that follows no naming convention... maybe "Hydros Emma" after Emma Nutt...

Sorry, can't help myself.

 

[n2585722]

I would pay for an addon card for my P4 to have wired ethernet.

Did you set the emergency mode settings in the options menu. That allows you to set an emergency password so you can access the controllers with that password without a source of internet if needed. This would be via bluetooth and not wifi so you would have to be at the same location as the controllers. It will allow you to see all inputs and outputs but they are all on the same page in that mode. You can override outputs to either off, auto or on so you would still have that control without your router or internet if needed. If you loose internet then that would be the only way since normal access using the app is via the cloud server. I loose internet access multiple times a day. So my issue is not wifi but internet but causes nearly the same issue.

 

[n2585722]

I wish they'd have a separate box that had command bus to ethernet and you could just add that to your collective if you wanted to hardwire it.

One of the reasons is a CAT 5 connecter would cause the loss of the IP65 rating and yes it would cost more per controller since every one would have to have the connector since they all independently communicate with the Hydros cloud even if they are in a collective.

 

[n2585722]

They are only IP-65. (dust, spray) - they are not "waterproof".

But let's back up here. CV claims the controllers are IP-65. I assume they can show certification for each device, and would hope that they don't just slap the rating on their items... but let's ignore that.

That rating applies to the device itself. That means that those connectors will not allow water or dust ingress. It does not mean that the cords plugged into the device are (or have to be) IP-65 rated.

What that means -- Unless those BNCs, DINs and other cords are sealed, and the connectors have IP-65 rated seals (gaskets, glans, o-rings, whatever) then the IP-65 rating is kind of moot. Water can't enter the controller, but it can still enter connectors and create a short. Tossing a $2 IP65 RJ connector on their wouldn't change a thing.

The same with the 120V cord/plug devices - there is no reasonable (cost effective) way to create an IP65 system when it comes to this price and class of device. So the 120V ports may be IP65 but the 120V pins can still short if exposed to salt water.

The XP8 and Launch are not IP65 rated since the have the AC outlet on them. The others are but that said I do not put any controllers where they are exposed to higher humidity such as near a sump in a cabinet regardless of ratings. I would not want to get cables to hookup my 16 controllers using cat 5 plus my router only has cat 5 4 inputs on it. So I would have to get a switch to do that. I have had no issues connecting with my controllers using bluetooth when needed.

 

[BeanAnimal]

One of the reasons is a CAT 5 connecter would cause the loss of the IP65 rating and yes it would cost more per controller since every one would have to have the connector since they all independently communicate with the Hydros cloud even if they are in a collective.

The Rj connector would not cause loss of IP65 rating as long as the connector was rated. Yes, it would add cost, and that is why they opted to use wifi only.

I would question the architecture if each device needs its own internet connection instead of one device being elected as the gateway and the rest communicate with it over the data bus.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The XP8 and Launch are not IP65 rated since the have the AC outlet on them. The others are but that said I do not put any controllers where they are exposed to higher humidity such as near a sump in a cabinet regardless of ratings. I would not want to get cables to hookup my 16 controllers using cat 5 plus my router only has cat 5 4 inputs on it. So I would have to get a switch to do that. I have had no issues connecting with my controllers using bluetooth when needed.

You tend to always use your personal experience with these devices to insist that others should not have a problem. While your opinions are helpful and you appear to be a large fan and support of the product, I want to point out (again) that wireless connectivity (of any kind) is highly environment dependent and that is what is currently being discussed.

I don't have a dog in the fight, I don't care what CV does with their ecosystem. I am not invested in it and likely never will be. As long as the "maven" works standalone and is accurate and cost effective, I will give it a shot. No plans to move to any other Hydros equipment -- far too many oddities in design choice and form factor for my taste. I stand by the fact that they roadmap, naming conventions, features and marketing are all by the seat of their pants with no real cohesiveness.

 

[jmcdona6]

You tend to always use your personal experience with these devices to insist that others should not have a problem. Again, wireless connectivity (of any kind) is high environment dependent.

I don't have a dog in the fight, I don't care what CV does with their ecosystem. I am not invested in it and likely never will be. As long as the "maven" works standalone and is accurate and cost effective, I will give it a shot. No plans to move to any other Hydros equipment -- far too many oddities in design choice and form factor for my taste. I stand by the fact that they roadmap, naming conventions, features and marketing are all by the seat of their pants with no real cohesiveness.

That is always how it goes. People who don't have the problem downplay those that do. In tech, it is usually more toxic than anywhere else...a weird superiority complex exists.

I will add to party that I also have a lot of issues with the wifi connected devices and an occasional issue with the entire collective connecting. Twice I have had to have my wife trouble shoot while I was away (therefore unable to use emergency mode via bluetooth). Often a hard reset of the collective (plug/unplug) was required to fix it. Note, in both instances everything else including EIGHT 4K wifi based cameras around my property were working just fine. Kid playing online with a gaming system on the couch two feet away. Its Hydros, not my wifi. I am fairly tech savvy and not been able to remedy.

I know its pretty much impossible with the way they engineered the system, but I too would have paid a premium for a hardwire option. Sure wifi works 99% of the time, but the 1% it doesn't is always at the worst times.

 

[areefer01]

That is always how it goes. People who don't have the problem downplay those that do. In tech, it is usually more toxic than anywhere else...a weird superiority complex exists.

Conversely speaking people who have the problem downplay those that do not. Happens a lot in this hobby.

 

[jmcdona6]

Conversely speaking people who have the problem downplay those that do not. Happens a lot in this hobby.

Difference is, as a paying customer everyone who has a problem should be able to to freely discuss their problem and what they would like to see instead. Whereas people who don't have a problem aren't really contributing anything to the conversation by telling those who have a problem that it is actually their problem and what they want doesn't matter...when its not about them at all. Unless they have a constructive solution.

 

[n2585722]

You tend to always use your personal experience with these devices to insist that others should not have a problem. While your opinions are helpful and you appear to be a large fan and support of the product, I want to point out (again) that wireless connectivity (of any kind) is highly environment dependent and that is what is currently being discussed.

I don't have a dog in the fight, I don't care what CV does with their ecosystem. I am not invested in it and likely never will be. As long as the "maven" works standalone and is accurate and cost effective, I will give it a shot. No plans to move to any other Hydros equipment -- far too many oddities in design choice and form factor for my taste. I stand by the fact that they roadmap, naming conventions, features and marketing are all by the seat of their pants with no real cohesiveness.

I am not insisting that they cannot have an issue but that they do work unless there is some kind of interference or settings that are not correct. I did have a camera that caused interference. It was set to off in the app but apparently still had the wifi going. It was in a window near the tank so it was causing interference with the controllers at the tank more than anything else but was also affecting my iPad even in a different room. I finally tracked it down and unplugged power to the camera and all issues went away. You can also set any one of the controllers as the preferred wifi master so that can help also with issues with wifi devices such as the wifi strips if you do have a collective of controllers. Since all the controllers can be used stand alone they all would need the wired connection if you were to go that way. The command bus will allow wired communications between all the controllers that are members of the collective without wifi or internet. I always have issue with my internet access. It used to be rock solid until Spectrum took over.ever since the internet intermittently drops out but usually not for long but there have been long periods. The longest was for 5 days straight. I guess since I came from the Digital Aquatics platform the Hydros makes more sense to me since most things are quite close. In fact when I had just started with the Hydros I was sending signal back and forth between the Archon and Hydros using ports on each. I had no Hydros at the tank but was using it to control my ATO and AWC but a signal from the Archon was taking the place of the ATO sensor and also had a signal to halt the AWC from the Archon.