Hydros Maven is Delayed

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I have five Hydros controllers and overall I’m happy with them. But the 2.4gHz limitation has made things more difficult than they might have been. I have a Netgear Orbi mesh Wi-Fi system, maybe 7 years old? It was state of the art when I bought it, but it has an annoying limitation: you can’t create a separate SSID name for the 2.4 and 5gHz channels.

Can anyone recommend a better system in 2025?
 
I'm with you on the hardwired. The argument that wifi is much more reliable now days is also valid. It is. But I would go even further and say, I want a controller collective that can operate 100% in an offline capacity. I want to have a local control interface (laptop or OEM remote) and I want the ability to completely sever all ties to the Internet and still have a completely trustworthy controller. My APEX classic stays disconnected 99% of the time. I don't worry about bad FW/SW pushes or any of that stuff. It just....works. I love technology, I enjoy seeing the evolution of that technology. But sometimes simpler really is better (opinion)
I was without internet at the controllers for 5 days straight one time and they all continued to run as they were setup. To check on things I had to use bluetooth but the device with the app still had to have a internet connection to log in. Luckily my phone still had internet via mobile service. That has been fixed now. You can setup a local emergency password to gain access to the controller or collective if there is no internet. You would loose graphing for the time of the outage if it last long enough to cause a gap. So it is not like the controllers are not accessible during an outage as long as you are where the controllers are at. You can still override outputs to off, auto or on if needed during the outage.
 
I was without internet at the controllers for 5 days straight one time and they all continued to run as they were setup. To check on things I had to use bluetooth but the device with the app still had to have a internet connection to log in. Luckily my phone still had internet via mobile service. That has been fixed now. You can setup a local emergency password to gain access to the controller or collective if there is no internet. You would loose graphing for the time of the outage if it last long enough to cause a gap. So it is not like the controllers are not accessible during an outage as long as you are where the controllers are at. You can still override outputs to off, auto or on if needed during the outage.
Good to know there is a work around. I guess my overarching concern is really around being at the mercy of external factors that could cause issues. I see a lot of "I had an update push and now all my equipment is going crazy" type posts. Maybe I'm just getting old and grouchy, or because we have been dealing with cyber related issues and scammers lately... So I'm just getting turned off from everything being connected to EVERYTHING now days. I see the appeal of convenience with access but I'm learning to appreciate "the old ways" a bit more. To each their own for sure!
 
Good to know there is a work around. I guess my overarching concern is really around being at the mercy of external factors that could cause issues. I see a lot of "I had an update push and now all my equipment is going crazy" type posts. Maybe I'm just getting old and grouchy, or because we have been dealing with cyber related issues and scammers lately... So I'm just getting turned off from everything being connected to EVERYTHING now days. I see the appeal of convenience with access but I'm learning to appreciate "the old ways" a bit more. To each their own for sure!
With Hydros the controllers will not automatically update their firmware. You have to command the controllers to download the new firmware and then command them to install it. Unfortunately Apple and android devices can download and install the new app automatically. Sometimes the new app will not not be compatible with the old firmware. There is an old version of the web app you can use with a browser until you can update the firmware on the controllers. I have downloaded the new firmware before remotely but I would never install it until I was in the same location as the tank just incase. If you are going away for a while you can also turn off automatic update on the apple and android devices so the app does not update while you are away. Hydros does post when there is new firmware and a new app coming out on their facebook group and the Hydros forum.
 
I have five Hydros controllers and overall I’m happy with them. But the 2.4gHz limitation has made things more difficult than they might have been. I have a Netgear Orbi mesh Wi-Fi system, maybe 7 years old? It was state of the art when I bought it, but it has an annoying limitation: you can’t create a separate SSID name for the 2.4 and 5gHz channels.

Can anyone recommend a better system in 2025?
You don’t need separate SSIDs. This is a huge misconception fueled by countless manufacturer’s support channels and end users who have no clue what they are talking about.

A 2.4 GHz only IoT device can’t see the 5 GHz radio. There is no reason to create a 2.4 only network.

Where issues come into play with SSIDs sharing two radios (say 2.4 and 5) is with client devices that do have both radios — phones and laptops and some newer IoT devices. These devices tend to band hop back and forth between radios when there is interference or the device is moving and signal strengths vary. Better devices and APs use “band steering” and other logic to try to prevent this, but it is a major PITA in most cases. A laptops WiFi stack is far more sophisticated than a cheap IoT WiFi chipset and the laptop band hops far more gracefully.

Your Hydros, if it is 2.4 only, doesn’t even know that a 5 GHz network even exists.

BTW, that is part of the reason so many IoT devices are still 2.4 GHz. — it makes connection and support easier, as most APs broadcast a 2.4 GHz signal by default and for backward compatibility.
 
You don’t need separate SSIDs. This is a huge misconception fueled by countless manufacturer’s support channels and end users who have no clue what they are talking about.

A 2.4 GHz only IoT device can’t see the 5 GHz radio. There is no reason to create a 2.4 only network.

Where issues come into play with SSIDs sharing two radios (say 2.4 and 5) is with client devices that do have both radios — phones and laptops and some newer IoT devices. These devices tend to band hop back and forth between radios when there is interference or the device is moving and signal strengths vary. Better devices and APs use “band steering” and other logic to try to prevent this, but it is a major PITA in most cases. A laptops WiFi stack is far more sophisticated than a cheap IoT WiFi chipset and the laptop band hops far more gracefully.

Your Hydros, if it is 2.4 only, doesn’t even know that a 5 GHz network even exists.

BTW, that is part of the reason so many IoT devices are still 2.4 GHz. — it makes connection and support easier, as most APs broadcast a 2.4 GHz signal by default and for backward compatibility.
The issue with this on Hydros is the wifi strips are both 2.4 and 5ghz and if they connect to 5ghz the controllers on the 2.4ghz channel cannot communicate with it. If this does happen you can get a wired access point setup with a different name and no 5ghz channel for the Hydros devices and that should take care of that issue with the wifi power strips. If you are not using any of the wifi devices like the power strips then this in not an issue.
 
I have five Hydros controllers and overall I’m happy with them. But the 2.4gHz limitation has made things more difficult than they might have been. I have a Netgear Orbi mesh Wi-Fi system, maybe 7 years old? It was state of the art when I bought it, but it has an annoying limitation: you can’t create a separate SSID name for the 2.4 and 5gHz channels.

Can anyone recommend a better system in 2025?
Get a wired access point setup with a different name and turn off the 5ghz channel. Just make sure it is connected to your main router and not another access point, You will need to setup all the controllers to the new access point and then pair the wifi devices to the access point using replace but make sure the device you have the app installed on you are using is also on the access point you want the wifi strips to connect to.
 
The issue with this on Hydros is the wifi strips are both 2.4 and 5ghz and if they connect to 5ghz the controllers on the 2.4ghz channel cannot communicate with it.
That does not make sense unless their architecture is a mess.

Ignore band hopping dropouts...

A 2.4GHz or 5 GHz to the network connected device is no different than a hardwired node. It has a MAC and and an IP and is just an ethernet client. It is all one network.

If these devices are trying to create their own mesh extension of a network, then I wouldn't want them on the network anyway -- there is no way they handle spanning tree properly.

LoL the more more I start to understand about these devices, the more I question their architecture.
 
That does not make sense unless their architecture is a mess.

Ignore band hopping dropouts...

A 2.4GHz or 5 GHz to the network connected device is no different than a hardwired node. It has a MAC and and an IP and is just an ethernet client. It is all one network.

If these devices are trying to create their own mesh extension of a network, then I wouldn't want them on the network anyway -- there is no way they handle spanning tree properly.

LoL the more more I start to understand about these devices, the more I question their architecture.
The wifi strips are Tuya protocol and the controllers have to communicate with them using that protocol without using the cloud since it is done locally. I am not sure how it is done but they do have to be on the same wifi channel for it to work. I can see why they want the communications to be local and not involve the internet as many internet issues I have.
 
I would pay for an addon card for my P4 to have wired ethernet.
Here is my Hydros collective I am logged into using the emergency mode with my router unplugged so there is no wifi or network communications. I took several screenshots of logging in in the emergency mode where it uses bluetooth for logging in.

This is the app trying to connect normally.
IMG_3150.png


Once it gives up the screen below is displayed.

IMG_3151.png


You click on enter emergency mode and you will get the next screen for a few minutes.

IMG_3152.png


Then it will give you a choice of which collective or controller you want to select.

IMG_3153.png


For this I clicked on my collective aquarium control. and then this screen comes up for a while.

IMG_3154.png


Then this will pop up for you to enter the emergency mode password you setup when you turned on allow emergency mode in options in the left menu.

IMG_3180.png


Once I put in the password this comes up. If you are not familiar with Hydros normally you have inputs and outputs setup on individual pages instead of all on one like it is in emergency mode. The first things listed are the member controllers. The top one on the left with the three overlapping circles is the collective wifi master. It is the one that currently communicates with the wifi devices such as the wifi power strips. As you can see all the wifi icons are red indicating the controllers cannot access wifi. The second screenshot below are more of the controllers.

IMG_3166.png

IMG_3167.png


Below is the start of the inputs. It defaults to text mode with the inputs and outputs but I already selected tile mode since I like that mode better. You will have to do that each time you use emergency mode in the normal app operations that is saved and will come up how it was last saved. None of the inputs are red so that is good on this screenshot.

IMG_3168.png


Below is another screenshot of more inputs. The ones that show as unconfigured or None Never have to have internet to show. The unconfigured ones are test that taken at a specific time and the time is usually also displayed. The None Never ones are static inputs which are ones manually entered.

IMG_3169.png


Below is the remainder of the input in my collective and the start of the outputs. The outputs that are highlighted in blue are on. The grey ones are off. The ones with the lightning bolt to the left are outputs that have power monitoring.

IMG_3170.png


Below is more outputs. The ones that are completely orange are in override on or off mode. It could be due to a timed event such as a minimum on or off time set in the output. The colors on the EcoTech outputs just denote where the pump is located like same side, opposite side or back.

IMG_3171.png


Below is more of the outputs.

IMG_3172.png


Below are more outputs. I guess I have a lot of outputs setup.

IMG_3173.png


Below is the end of the outputs and the wifi devices and third party devices. The all red tiles is because those are access via wifi or internet and at the time these screenshots were taken there was no internet or wifi.

IMG_3174.png


So you can access the controller or collective if you are onsite using bluetooth. You can even override the outputs if you need to or click on a mode and it will go into that mode. Of coarse there is not way to change any outputs on the wifi devices with no wifi so those cannot be set to a override mode. If it was just no internet then those would still be controllable. The screens below were taken with no internet but with wifi working. These two show the only basic differences from the ones already posted. The first one you can see the wifi icon on the controllers is orange instead of red. That indicates there is wifi but there is other communication issues which in this case is no internet since I had my cable modem unplugged to get the screenshots. The second screen just show the wifi and third party devices which are not red since the collective can still communicate with them.

IMG_3181.png

IMG_3189.png


Hope this is a help in how to access you Hydros without wifi or internet in emergency mode.
 
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There is no reason to create a 2.4 only network.

These devices tend to band hop back and forth between radios when there is interference or the device is moving and signal strengths vary. Better devices and APs use “band steering” and other logic to try to prevent this, but it is a major PITA in most cases

Sure, assuming every wireless router/ap and device strictly follow standards, are updated, completely bug free, under your direct control,-and allow you to turn off their trash implementation of band steering.

In the real world, I have found that having a separate 2.4ghz-only SSID for some older devices alleviates a lot of headache.

BTW, that is part of the reason so many IoT devices are still 2.4 GHz. — it makes connection and support easier, as most APs broadcast a 2.4 GHz signal by default and for backward compatibility.

No, they are just being cheap, and it causes connectivity issues and headaches for end users.
 
Sure, assuming every wireless router/ap and device strictly follow standards,

In the real world, I have found that having a separate 2.4ghz-only SSID for some older devices alleviates a lot of headache.
You are missing the entire point.

If an IoT (or any) device only has a 2.4 GHz radio, it is 100% impossible for 5 GHz signal to interfere, even if they are on the same SSID. There is no radio to interfere with. Period.

No, they are just being cheap, and it causes connectivity issues and headaches for end users.
If it makes you feel better to think so, then have at it.

Reality:

1 - IoT devices are almost universally on the 2.4 GHz band because 2.4 GHz has far better penetration than 5 GHz, especially given the need for low power and small antennas. This not only provides more reliable connectivity, but also far fewer dropouts — especially over distance (through walls, etc.)

2 - IoT devices are almost universally on the 2.4 GHz band because it takes far less power for them to operate.

3 - 2.4 GHz is supported almost universally by ALL access points and will continue to be the standard for at least another decade — it is going nowhere.

4 - 5 GHz is not nearly as prevalent (see point 1) and an IoT device that supported only 5 GHz would be of limited demand — therefore to offer 5 GHz the device needs to have both 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz radios — greatly increasing hardware and software complexity, as well as power consumption and device footprint.

5 - 5 GHz Wi-Fi uses a wide range of protocols (802.11a/n/ac/ax) and Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) channels, which cause connectivity issues with many small 5 GHz implementations. Devices must constantly scan for available channels, significantly increasing power consumption and complexity. Additionally, AP-client mismatches, where an AP pushes a device onto an unsupported channel, can create unreliable connections. This makes 5 GHz very unreliable for low-power IoT devices unless they use sophisticated chipsets with complex software logic to manage connection states. Bottom line: Most APs default to broader 5 GHz protocol options than what typical IoT chipsets can handle.

So yeah, cost is in there somewhere, but it really has nothing to do with being cheap.

As far as headaches, you have it backwards — again — almost all APs default to broadcasting 2.4 GHz and as long as a device has only a 2.4 GHz radio, then there is nothing to interfere. Support is simple compared to a device that has both radios and has to manage band steering on a setup where both radios are broadcasting the same SSID — let alone dealing with the myriad of other issues introduced with 5 GHz. Most end users have zero clue or ability to resolve such issues and they are beyond the scope of most device tech support. — a tech support nightmare.
 
I'm not trying to derail the thread, but I purchased a 2.4GHz wifi router off Amazon for $25. It's fed via an Ethernet cable from my 5GHz unit. The 2.4 GHz is dedicated solely for my Hydros system. I've yet to have a wireless connection issue in 9+ months of use for the mere price of $25.
 
You don’t need separate SSIDs. This is a huge misconception fueled by countless manufacturer’s support channels and end users who have no clue what they are talking about.

A 2.4 GHz only IoT device can’t see the 5 GHz radio. There is no reason to create a 2.4 only network.

Where issues come into play with SSIDs sharing two radios (say 2.4 and 5) is with client devices that do have both radios — phones and laptops and some newer IoT devices. These devices tend to band hop back and forth between radios when there is interference or the device is moving and signal strengths vary. Better devices and APs use “band steering” and other logic to try to prevent this, but it is a major PITA in most cases. A laptops WiFi stack is far more sophisticated than a cheap IoT WiFi chipset and the laptop band hops far more gracefully.

Your Hydros, if it is 2.4 only, doesn’t even know that a 5 GHz network even exists.

BTW, that is part of the reason so many IoT devices are still 2.4 GHz. — it makes connection and support easier, as most APs broadcast a 2.4 GHz signal by default and for backward compatibility.
That’s interesting. Thanks.
 
The issue with this on Hydros is the wifi strips are both 2.4 and 5ghz and if they connect to 5ghz the controllers on the 2.4ghz channel cannot communicate with it. If this does happen you can get a wired access point setup with a different name and no 5ghz channel for the Hydros devices and that should take care of that issue with the wifi power strips. If you are not using any of the wifi devices like the power strips then this in not an issue.
Good to know. Luckily I bought an XP8 instead of a Wi-Fi strip, though I’m thinking of getting some Wi-Fi strips to control various things not near the tank, eg. my RO/DI setup.
 
With Hydros the controllers will not automatically update their firmware. You have to command the controllers to download the new firmware and then command them to install it. Unfortunately Apple and android devices can download and install the new app automatically. Sometimes the new app will not not be compatible with the old firmware. There is an old version of the web app you can use with a browser until you can update the firmware on the controllers. I have downloaded the new firmware before remotely but I would never install it until I was in the same location as the tank just incase. If you are going away for a while you can also turn off automatic update on the apple and android devices so the app does not update while you are away. Hydros does post when there is new firmware and a new app coming out on their facebook group and the Hydros forum.

This is a huge relief. I’m in Italy right now in the middle of a vacation— and when I opened the Hydros app yesterday I got a notice that it has an update and will no longer work with the collective. There’s new firmware available for the controllers. At first this was a freak out moment, but then I realized that a) I don’t need to update the firmware now, and b) there’s a web-based stand-in for the app that still lets me monitor my tank.
 
You are missing the entire point.

If an IoT (or any) device only has a 2.4 GHz radio, it is 100% impossible for 5 GHz signal to interfere, even if they are on the same SSID. There is no radio to interfere with. Period.

No, you are missing the point. I said there are compatibility issues, not interference.

As far as headaches, you have it backwards — again — almost all APs default to broadcasting 2.4 GHz and as long as a device has only a 2.4 GHz radio, then there is nothing to interfere.

Sure, until a newer dual band wireless router/ap that with band steering stops or delays responding to a 2.4ghz device on 2.4ghz in an attempt to steer it to 5ghz.

Having a separate SSID that is configured for 2.4ghz only is the easiest way for end users to take band steering out of the equation.
 
This is a huge relief. I’m in Italy right now in the middle of a vacation— and when I opened the Hydros app yesterday I got a notice that it has an update and will no longer work with the collective. There’s new firmware available for the controllers. At first this was a freak out moment, but then I realized that a) I don’t need to update the firmware now, and b) there’s a web-based stand-in for the app that still lets me monitor my tank.

Only if that web based server is working. Which it wasn’t when they forced that update. That update crashed my system. Luckily I was 20 minutes from home and could leave work to restore functions to my tanks.
 
The 2.4 vs 5 issue is more a matter of support.

Devices that can do both tend to flap between both on networks where 2.4 and 5 both have the same SSID. Band steering is a nightmare. Trying to explain to end users how to troubleshoot and resolve that issue is mind numbing. So easier (and cheaper both on parts and support) to just use 2.4 and assume that most APs have a 2.4 radio enabled.
I think Bean hit a salient point that I would want to know what the view of CV is?

Does CV view the product as an IoT system or actual life supporting equipment?

I think that is a huge variable in the various biases the reefing community has as well.

Some are seemingly more focused on the Tech and some more focused on the reef and a lot of reefers are at varying degrees of either side.

I am still learning and too new to even argue hertz over wire, but I think depending on your bias (not a positive or negative) it really drives your desire for product reliability.

When something breaks on my system, if it’s not fixable via support or YouTube, I am screwed. I don’t have the bandwidth to learn a lifetime of information technology to diagnose or even attempt to determine an alternate solution.

Having said all of that, being able to plug in a cord and know it’s working would seemingly be a reasonable option and could also be a marketing advantage.

If other products don’t offer it and even at a premium, it’s added as an option, people who lack 2.4 and 5g intimate knowledge might just feel more comfortable with a cord.

Thank you to all for the discourse and information.
 

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