Hydros Owners: how happy are you long term?

[polyppal]

The XP8 technically has a controller built into it. The XP8 runs the same processor as all the other hydros Control units. Also it runs the same software as well. While it doesn’t have any physical input or probe ports, it operates the same way as other devices.

oh really, so the only real difference is they didn't give it any ports?

 

[reefiniteasy]

yeah I agree had they made the xp8 with an actual controller built into it, it would be a game changer. but it would also undermine the rest of the product line

XP8 has an actual controller built into it. It’s got it’s own brain. The point is brain Redundancy. And zero connection issues for over a year with WiFi bars and so far zero connection issues with the XP8.

 

[reefiniteasy]

Been playing around with the power monitoring. I hit feed mode on my IM MightyJet controller to see what would happen. I got notification that their was a power issue. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[JeffB418]

oh really, so the only real difference is they didn't give it any ports?

Correct. It can still control up to 8 Wi-Fi devices. It can connect to mastertronic and Alkatronic. It just doesn’t have any options for sense or probe input profiles itself. But the unit itself at a high level operates just like any other control.

it would’ve been nice to have a sensor port on it but then some would’ve seen that as not enough. And then it comes down to well what mix of ports do you have? So instead of adding a fixed portion of ports, they allow the user to design their own setup with devices that fit their needs. So while it’s not a “full” monitor controller since it has no physical ports, it technically is still a controller.

many people are hung up on the concept “well remove the controller chip and cost will be half” but the included controller isn’t the significant cost driver. And by already reusing a common chip and code baseline from other controllers you are able to cut down costs. And regardless, all slave or power devices still need a processor to control outlets and manage the power monitoring interfaces. So you can’t just make a outlet box without it.

 

[ReefBeta]

im wondering if the direct input from the XP8 to the controller (being wired) eliminates these wifi connection problems people are having. Before I purchase, id want to be sure its the cheap wifi power strips that are loosing signal and not the unit itself. Then there's the difference between people having strong or weak wifi signals based on their provider/router/etc. If the units signal/connection is good (or as good as apex) id be happy with it wired to a XP8.

yeah I agree had they made the xp8 with an actual controller built into it, it would be a game changer. but it would also undermine the rest of the hydros ecosystem. Like why apple would never make an iPad that ran macOS even though they easily could...

I mean they should make XP8 without a controller, make it a dumb power strip that requires a control to operate, and make it cheaper. A power strip with controller without sensors is stupid.

 

[polyppal]

I mean they should make XP8 without a controller, make it a dumb power strip that requires a control to operate, and make it cheaper. A power strip with controller without sensors is stupid.

yeah kinda pointless, but like someone else mentioned the actual controller 'motherboard' (or whatever) that the ports tie into is prob easier/cheaper to mass produce and clone in all the devices vs designing and manufacturing for each new product.

 

[FishyFishFish]

True, but if it has to be that expensive then throwing a couple of sense ports on would have transformed it from an over-priced power bar, into a fairly useful all-in-one controller.

 

[polyppal]

True, but if it has to be that expensive then throwing a couple of sense ports on would have transformed it from an over-priced power bar, into a fairly useful all-in-one controller.

yeah but doing so would undercut all of their other hydros lineup. would make it a great controller while making the rest of the hydros products fairly useless. Id imagine the same reason Neptune or GHL wouldn't do this... Companies intentionally hold back thier products potential all the time to make more $$$ (in this case on all the peripherals).

Business-wise can't blame them though. Theres plenty of business studies where companies make something so great and well thought out that it didn't need to be improved on or expanded - so there was little room for innovation. Eventually, once the market is saturated, the lack of innovation buries them, even if they sold a ton of the product.

 

[ReefBeta]

yeah kinda pointless, but like someone else mentioned the actual controller 'motherboard' (or whatever) that the ports tie into is prob easier/cheaper to mass produce and clone in all the devices vs designing and manufacturing for each new product.

Maybe. They need the power bus port to collect it to the collective, probably that's what also make it standalone. But the whole concept of collective is everyone in there can be master, so it's like a requirement per their architecture anyway. It's this way cause this is an after thought for the system. They were so so confident that wifi power strip is good enough, that they designed the wired power strip out of their architecture.

Some easier way can be like control the power strip via 0-10v output instead. There are 4 channel, 10 state for each channel, so it's capable of 10^4 combinations. That's enough to control on off state of 13 outlet. But only X4 and wave engine has that.

But anyway, that's their problem, not mine. They failed to make a product with competitive price. As a customer I don't really care about the reason. It's too expensive to my book, so I'm not buying one. Simple as that.

 

[n2585722]

im wondering if the direct input from the XP8 to the controller (being wired) eliminates these wifi connection problems people are having. Before I purchase, id want to be sure its the cheap wifi power strips that are loosing signal and not the unit itself. Then there's the difference between people having strong or weak wifi signals based on their provider/router/etc. If the units signal/connection is good (or as good as apex) id be happy with it wired to a XP8.

I shut off my router so there is no wifi in the following screenshots. I am accessing the collective via bluetooth with my phone. The app does not work on my iPad if there is now wifi since it cannot connect to the servers but the phone does. All the outputs in red are wifi outlets. All of the ones with the lightning bolt symbol are wired outlets. Some of these are XP8 outlets such as the two heaters, skimmer, return pump and Lights & Ecotech. As you can see those are not red so they are still communicating with the collective. The only ones that are down at this time are the ones on the 4 wifi strips and the wifi feeder. Hope this helps.

 

[polyppal]

I shut off my router so there is no wifi in the following screenshots. I am accessing the collective via bluetooth with my phone. The app does not work on my iPad if there is now wifi since it cannot connect to the servers but the phone does. All the outputs in red are wifi outlets. All of the ones with the lightning bolt symbol are wired outlets. Some of these are XP8 outlets such as the two heaters, skimmer, return pump and Lights & Ecotech. As you can see those are not red so they are still communicating with the collective. The only ones that are down at this time are the ones on the 4 wifi strips and the wifi feeder. Hope this helps.

Interesting, thanks! Yeah I still think the x4/xp8 is gonna be my best bet

 

[n2585722]

Maybe. They need the power bus port to collect it to the collective, probably that's what also make it standalone. But the whole concept of collective is everyone in there can be master, so it's like a requirement per their architecture anyway. It's this way cause this is an after thought for the system. They were so so confident that wifi power strip is good enough, that they designed the wired power strip out of their architecture.

Some easier way can be like control the power strip via 0-10v output instead. There are 4 channel, 10 state for each channel, so it's capable of 10^4 combinations. That's enough to control on off state of 13 outlet. But only X4 and wave engine has that.

But anyway, that's their problem, not mine. They failed to make a product with competitive price. As a customer I don't really care about the reason. It's too expensive to my book, so I'm not buying one. Simple as that.

Their XP8 is in line with the cost of 8 output power bars. I paid $129 each for some PB4's and they only have 4 outlets each and no power readback on them. That is $258 for two of them. It is cheaper the an EB832.

 

[JeffB418]

Interesting, thanks! Yeah I still think the x4/xp8 is gonna be my best bet

Yeah the new X4 pro pack that will be out in the next week or so will be a home run for most users. It includes all the cables and parts to tie the included x4 and xp8 together as well.

 

[JeffB418]

Maybe. They need the power bus port to collect it to the collective, probably that's what also make it standalone. But the whole concept of collective is everyone in there can be master, so it's like a requirement per their architecture anyway. It's this way cause this is an after thought for the system. They were so so confident that wifi power strip is good enough, that they designed the wired power strip out of their architecture.

Some easier way can be like control the power strip via 0-10v output instead. There are 4 channel, 10 state for each channel, so it's capable of 10^4 combinations. That's enough to control on off state of 13 outlet. But only X4 and wave engine has that.

But anyway, that's their problem, not mine. They failed to make a product with competitive price. As a customer I don't really care about the reason. It's too expensive to my book, so I'm not buying one. Simple as that.

From what I know the XP8 was always planned as part of the product line but took more time to release than anticipated due to COVID. The Wi-Fi power strip was designed into the architecture since it provided a quick and budget friendly solution since it was something that coralvue could quickly bring to market. It’s the main reason it’s only a $40 offering, the product itself is direct reuse of a commercially available product with the exception of the branding on it and the custom mounting bracket that Coralvue had separately manufactured.

The xp8 is entirely a custom design and design/engineering costs have to be spread over a much smaller amount of products compared to an off the shelf power strip that has a much larger qty to spread those costs over.

there aren’t some DIY options to directly control outlets from the 0-10v with the current available software control if you really need that functionality but doing the encoding structure you talk about would require a custom design and would thus increase the cost if that was produced.

 

[Joe31415]

Disclaimer, I have not read this thread yet, but I'll go back and skim through it.
I picked up a Hydros Control 2, temp probe (came with it), water level sensor, two power bars and some BRS pumps. My intention was to set it up to do AWC.

This was a month ago. Since then, I've spent *hours* playing with it haven't gotten anywhere. I'm typically pretty good at this type of stuff, but I'm stuck.
I can't get things to connect to it properly. When I can, I can't get it to control anything properly. It's been a disaster. Even if I'm doing something wrong, I have a hard time believing it's this complicated and I'm beginning to wonder if something's actually broken. For example, any time I've reset the entire system to start over, one of the power bars connects (more or less) right away. The other will take me an hour or so of playing with it to finally get it connected.

I threw out all the packaging so I can't return it to BRS. I'm hoping I'm just missing something. I have to make a point to sit down with it every few days and try again. As soon as it starts collecting dust, I know I'll never touch it again and might as well throw it out.

 

[ReefBeta]

From what I know the XP8 was always planned as part of the product line but took more time to release than anticipated due to COVID. The Wi-Fi power strip was designed into the architecture since it provided a quick and budget friendly solution since it was something that coralvue could quickly bring to market. It’s the main reason it’s only a $40 offering, the product itself is direct reuse of a commercially available product with the exception of the branding on it and the custom mounting bracket that Coralvue had separately manufactured.

The xp8 is entirely a custom design and design/engineering costs have to be spread over a much smaller amount of products compared to an off the shelf power strip that has a much larger qty to spread those costs over.

there aren’t some DIY options to directly control outlets from the 0-10v with the current available software control if you really need that functionality but doing the encoding structure you talk about would require a custom design and would thus increase the cost if that was produced.

If XP8 was planned like that from the beginning, it's kind of sad. With that, it's the same price as Apex to start with. But it's a lot more expensive to expand for adding more sensories. Sense port is $40 per port per XS. pH port is $120 per X3. Apex is $90 can add a pH and temp port, $110 for 4 flow metering ports. Even EB8 is cheaper per port than XP8 of you can make use of the two 24v port, or at least even without them. Hydros get more expensive very fast if you're expanding on anything except wifi power strip.

 

[n2585722]

Disclaimer, I have not read this thread yet, but I'll go back and skim through it.
I picked up a Hydros Control 2, temp probe (came with it), water level sensor, two power bars and some BRS pumps. My intention was to set it up to do AWC.

This was a month ago. Since then, I've spent *hours* playing with it haven't gotten anywhere. I'm typically pretty good at this type of stuff, but I'm stuck.
I can't get things to connect to it properly. When I can, I can't get it to control anything properly. It's been a disaster. Even if I'm doing something wrong, I have a hard time believing it's this complicated and I'm beginning to wonder if something's actually broken. For example, any time I've reset the entire system to start over, one of the power bars connects (more or less) right away. The other will take me an hour or so of playing with it to finally get it connected.

I threw out all the packaging so I can't return it to BRS. I'm hoping I'm just missing something. I have to make a point to sit down with it every few days and try again. As soon as it starts collecting dust, I know I'll never touch it again and might as well throw it out.

Are you aware of the Hydros forum and the official Hydros group on facebook. Either one of those you can ask questions about seup and such.

Hydros Forum: https://forum.coralvuehydros.com/

Hydros Online Manual: https://www.coralvuehydros.com/product-support/hydros-control/

The facebook group is called: OFFICIAL CoralVue HYDROS Community Group.

That said do you have a mesh wifi network?

 

[JeffB418]

If XP8 was planned like that from the beginning, it's kind of sad. With that, it's the same price as Apex to start with. But it's a lot more expensive to expand for adding more sensories. Sense port is $40 per port per XS. pH port is $120 per X3. Apex is $90 can add a pH and temp port, $110 for 4 flow metering ports. Even EB8 is cheaper per port than XP8 of you can make use of the two 24v port, or at least even without them. Hydros get more expensive very fast if you're expanding on anything except wifi power strip.

In regards to ports tho it’s how you view them. Certain sensory ports on apex aren’t multi-use and dedicated to a single purpose with the exception of the FFM accessories. There’s different ways to approach it that will give each side a benefit. For example if I wanted to add 4 temperature probes to my system for a bank of 4 fish qt tanks, to put a temp probe in each it’s only adding on 1 XS at $160. To do the same for apex I would need 4x PMx modules at $90 each ringing up to $360 total. There’s multiple ways to look at it.

 

[n2585722]

If XP8 was planned like that from the beginning, it's kind of sad. With that, it's the same price as Apex to start with. But it's a lot more expensive to expand for adding more sensories. Sense port is $40 per port per XS. pH port is $120 per X3. Apex is $90 can add a pH and temp port, $110 for 4 flow metering ports. Even EB8 is cheaper per port than XP8 of you can make use of the two 24v port, or at least even without them. Hydros get more expensive very fast if you're expanding on anything except wifi power strip.

It also depends on what you want as not all things one can do is the other capable of at this time. So you need to consider that when deciding. Can the Apex do what is in the screenshot below. That is water levels in my three storage containers in the garage. I put them on this page by themselves so you can see which ones I was referring to. Thr readings are in percentage full for each. I believe the Hydros is more DIY friendly.

 

[ReefBeta]

In regards to ports tho it’s how you view them. Certain sensory ports on apex aren’t multi-use and dedicated to a single purpose with the exception of the FFM accessories. There’s different ways to approach it that will give each side a benefit. For example if I wanted to add 4 temperature probes to my system for a bank of 4 fish qt tanks, to put a temp probe in each it’s only adding on 1 XS at $160. To do the same for apex I would need 4x PMx modules at $90 each ringing up to $360 total. There’s multiple ways to look at it.

Yeah sure, if you need an array of temperature probes then Hydros has an edge. But for a typical reef system, it's very rare case to come to that. I rarely see anyone use any controller at all in a QT system. A simple temp meter for couple bucks are a lot more common, because those thing need to be sterilized pretty often. But have an array of optical sensor to measure different water level at various locations for automation or safety is a very common use case. Basically every tank can benefit from a setup like this.