I have a question

[SaltyTwigs]

Hey Adam. Personally, I would never buy a mariculture or wild coral. For me, the risks of coral survival or the introduction of something nasty if you are not quarantining in a separate system are not worth it. I only buy coral from very reputable vendors I trust. This, for me, is narrowed down to buying from you at BattleCorals or Coral Euphoria (until Abe gave it up). I am sure many others do a great job, but most people would be well served to find a couple of quality vendors that are very cautious with pests and coral health and sell aquacultured corals that have been in the hobby for a long time and stick with them. Buying frags from many different vendors, over time, you are more likely to make reefing much more challenging than it needs to be. If that mariculture/wild coral is all it is cracked up to be, it won't be long till you can find it from a reputable vendor that has it aquacultured after some time. There are tons of awesome-looking corals that have been in the hobby for a long time that not just survive but thrive in reef tanks.

To answer your question about why someone would not just buy the colony instead of a frag, they don't know or have the connections to do so. As others have said, the name game plays a big part. A colony is seen as having diminished value if it does not have a catchy trade name.

I think this again ties into the combination of my NFC-enabled Frag Tags™ and blockchain as a solution to providing a way for vendors to offer more insight into the lineage of a coral frag and its history. It would also provide owners of the frag selling it to others with some assurances that what they say they are reselling is what they say it is, where it came from, and how long they have had it.

 

[Jasonak]

I did not know that thread existed. I apologize and ty. Will do.

Its new I just started it today. I was searching around in the battle forum and couldn't find one so figured Id start one.

 

[Battlecorals Verified Sponsor]

Hey Adam. Personally, I would never buy a mariculture or wild coral. For me, the risks of coral survival or the introduction of something nasty if you are not quarantining in a separate system are not worth it. I only buy coral from very reputable vendors I trust. This, for me, is narrowed down to buying from you at BattleCorals or Coral Euphoria (until Abe gave it up). I am sure many others do a great job, but most people would be well served to find a couple of quality vendors that are very cautious with pests and coral health and sell aquacultured corals that have been in the hobby for a long time and stick with them. Buying frags from many different vendors, over time, you are more likely to make reefing much more challenging than it needs to be. If that mariculture/wild coral is all it is cracked up to be, it won't be long till you can find it from a reputable vendor that has it aquacultured after some time. There are tons of awesome-looking corals that have been in the hobby for a long time that not just survive but thrive in reef tanks.

To answer your question about why someone would not just buy the colony instead of a frag, they don't know or have the connections to do so. As others have said, the name game plays a big part. A colony is seen as having diminished value if it does not have a catchy trade name.

I think this again ties into the combination of my NFC-enabled Frag Tags™ and blockchain as a solution to providing a way for vendors to offer more insight into the lineage of a coral frag and its history. It would also provide owners of the frag selling it to others with some assurances that what they say they are reselling is what they say it is, where it came from, and how long they have had it.

I feel like there is kind of a subtle common denominator here and that is that most people don’t really know or aren’t able to recognize them which I guess makes sense and I’ve been looking at these things long enough. It’s pretty obvious to me, but I could see how Someone with less experience might not be able to distinguish.


short of subtle nuances in the actual coral. There are certainly particular vendor practices that make it a bit more apparent as well. to me at least. Primarily not hosting colony pictures would be suspect.

 

[X-37B]

Lfs sells both. $100 Indo and $200 ausi colonies.
I have a few Indo with some cool structure and color.
If you visit the store enough you notice the colonies get fragged into 10+ @ $40 a piece.
Many are sold as mini colonies, lol.
They only have to sell a frag to get most of their money back.
Most new reefers want frags so they cut the colored ones up.
Most are obvious as they are not encrusted.
This is pretty common at most lfs I frequent.

 

[Mwatts12]

Lfs sells both. $100 Indo and $200 ausi colonies.
I have a few Indo with some cool structure and color.
If you visit the store enough you notice the colonies get fragged into 10+ @ $40 a piece.
Many are sold as mini colonies, lol.
They only have to sell a frag to get most of their money back.
Most new reefers want frags so they cut the colored ones up.
Most are obvious as they are not encrusted.
This is pretty common at most lfs I frequent.

Which LFS?

 

[Mattiejay6]

Heck no. There are a few on here that are chop shop express places… and hit that slider all the way right to amplify those colors. Biggest annoyance

 

[X-37B]

Which LFS?

Aquarium depot has both but many go quick.
Aqua Life has indo.
Before the indo's came back many other stores did the same.
It's been pretty common over the last 10+years from my view.

 

[Soilworker]

Interesting. I've probably been one of those who bought these corals. I just don't know any better or know how to distinguish them.

When you guys say "chop shop" is that just a place that buys corals from the ocean, cuts them up as frags, and that's what they sell?

There's a popular sale going on right now here on the forums that I wonder if it does that. The pictures are always very saturated.

 

[Battlecorals Verified Sponsor]

Interesting. I've probably been one of those who bought these corals. I just don't know any better or know how to distinguish them.

When you guys say "chop shop" is that just a place that buys corals from the ocean, cuts them up as frags, and that's what they sell?

There's a popular sale going on right now here on the forums that I wonder if it does that. The pictures are always very saturated.

Typically I’d say the general consensus on what defines a “chop shop” would be a place that doesn’t grow the coral they sell, rather buys colonies and frags them up. Mounts and sell as quickly as possible while they still look good and vibrant.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Typically I’d say the general consensus on what defines a “chop shop” would be a place that doesn’t grow the coral they sell, rather buys colonies and frags them up. Mounts and sell as quickly as possible while they still look good and vibrant.

I call them Flippers.

 

[Battlecorals Verified Sponsor]

I call them Flippers.

another thing I have seen happen over the years is a vendor may start out as an "aquaculture" seller, building up a stable if not solid reputation. But once they ripped through their old collection and there's nothing left,( which unfortunately is why long-term aquaculture is so challenging) they will ride out their reputation while reverting to simply cutting up wild acros as long as they can.

 

[Reefer Matt]

another thing I have seen happen over the years is a vendor may start out as an "aquaculture" seller, building up a stable if not solid reputation. But once they ripped through their old collection and there's nothing left,( which unfortunately is why long-term aquaculture is so challenging) they will ride out their reputation while reverting to simply cutting up wild acros as long as they can.

Yeah, I can see that happening for high volume sellers. I can even understand if someone is trying to feed their family off of the sales, but a lot of time it’s a side gig for extra money (which is also fine). I think the seller should be transparent when advertising as “aquacultured”, but selling something they know is not.

There are plenty of aquacultured frags and colonies out there that hobbyists would love to trade in for more coral. That would still count in that “aquacultured” space for the seller to advertise, they just might have to do a little more work in that case. My two cents as a “hobbyist” seller, anyway.

 

[100gallonreefer]

Why would anyone pay more than say, 50.00 (still seems like too much) for an obvious frag off of a wild maricultutred acropora?

I mean how is this value established? Short of greed, hype or perhaps a customer not realizing it. I would be interested to hear some actual reasoning behind a purchase like this.

These types of colonies are pretty available for the most part to end user hobbyists these days.

I think most newcomers to Acro don’t realize there are many reputable growers. In the beginning of my acro story I thought most $$$$$ corals were what I needed. I didn’t know about @Battlecorals until maybe 3 or 4 years into reef tanks.
There will always be a new batch of hobbyists who don’t realize they are paying crazy prices.

 

[SaltyTwigs]

I think most newcomers to Acro don’t realize there are many reputable growers. In the beginning of my acro story I thought most $$$$$ corals were what I needed. I didn’t know about @Battlecorals until maybe 3 or 4 years into reef tanks.
There will always be a new batch of hobbyists who don’t realize they are paying crazy prices.

Adam is truly a great guy! Maybe some of it is he is a fellow Wisconsinite. ;) But seriously @Battlecorals (Adam) someone I have complete trust in to bounce business ideas off of and know for certain that he is completely genuine in helping me and wanting me to succeed….and now that CoralEuphoria is no longer he gets 100% of my coral $$.

 

[billyocean]

At what point along in subsequent generations is it aquaculture vs wild or mari?

 

[ryshark]

At what point along in subsequent generations is it aquaculture vs wild or mari?

That’s a good question. I think for me, I’d consider a frag which was grown from a frag into a colony…. an aquacultured frag.

 

[Reefer Matt]

At what point along in subsequent generations is it aquaculture vs wild or mari?

My opinion is a second generation frag. So a wild colony gets fragged. That frag grows up into a colony. Then that second generation colony is fragged. Those subsequent frags are considered aquacultured to me. Also spawning coral in captivity, but that is pretty rare right now.

 

[ryshark]

I’ll say what definitely does not count as aquacultured is the Mari/wild colony “cooking” for several months before getting chopped up.

 

[billyocean]

Those are good answers. I just don't know who's passing off wild and mari as aquaculture really. IMO there's the tried and true with aquaculture which is great. Then...theres the unknown and awesomeness of getting something not many people have with wild or mari. Dabbling in both worlds is preferred for me.

 

[ryshark]

Those are good answers. I just don't know who's passing off wild and mari as aquaculture really. IMO there's the tried and true with aquaculture which is great. Then...theres the unknown and awesomeness of getting something not many people have with wild or mari. Dabbling in both worlds is preferred for me.

It’s fun at the proper prices and having a proper QT.