I Need Help. GHA battle

[RWReefer]

50$ on Amazon…scrub the rock vigorously with a stiff brush, blow the rocks with a turkey baster, vacuum the top layer of sand, remove all detritus, feed less, and do weekly. Soon it will be gone, removing rocks that are easily removed for extra scrubbing is great. When you think it’s clean, it’s likely not and do it again until all algae is gone….scrub, scrub, scrub, blow, blow blow, daily if necessary.

Here is my canister filter only used to clean aquarium while doing scrubbing and blowing of rock. This removes all crud, might take a month or two while doing weekly. I’m assuming you have a properly set up aquarium with a protein skimmer, good flow, and no dead spots that collect detritus.

More about you aquarium so I can be sure and some more pictures. Do worry about nutrients bottoming out, that is none sense at this point in your aquarium.

Thank you much. Yes, protein skimmer, 2 MP40s and an MP10 to keep flow throughout tank.

Here’s what I’m up against. Sand bed looks decent because I manually cleaned the algae carpet today.

 

[Narideth]

I don't believe it's been mentioned yet, but just something to think about - your nitrates seem low and within a good range, but those are your nitrates after the GHA has sucked it up to make more of itself. This was something someone said to me a long time ago when I was having a lot of algae issues and my nitrates were pretty darn low - and it makes sense. You're removing nitrates with every GHA clump you take out if you think of it being used as fuel for that crazy growth.

I'd second the lessening of feeding, and a shortening of the lighting schedule for a longer term management plan. Good luck, algae is definitely an unpleasant thing to deal with when it feels so out of control.

 

[dank.reefer]

Algae problems usually stem from either a lack of herbivores or a lack of maintenance. In the early stages/ years of tank maturation and growth you are likely to experience a lot more of these blooms especially if you started with dry rock. From the pictures you showed it doesn't look like you have any corals on those rocks. Why not pull them out and scrub them clean. If you have sand you may consider replacing it or thoroughly rinsing it. Then add a ton of snails to keep the algae in check. When I say a ton of snails, I mean like 1-2 per gallon. Many people think 1-2 for the whole tank is enough. They are wrong.

Once the algae is long like what is in your tank none of the herbivores can eat it. Snails, urchins fish, and crabs scrape the algae from the rocks, they cannot eat it once the tufts get too long. You will have to scrub it all off and keep it short so the herbivores can eat it.

Phosphates bind to substrate, so if you are testing .2 PO4 there is likely 3-5x that amount bound in the rocks and sand. This "bound" PO4 will "adsorb" or "absorb" to maintain equilibrium with the water. It will also act as a nutrient source for your algae to feed on. If you want to lower the amount of PO4 in the substrate you will have to keep the PO4 in the water low enough for long enough for the rocks to release "adsorb" it. This can take months. You mentioned you are feeding TDO pellets occasionally. TDO or any kind of pellets or dry food for that matter is basically concentrated PO4. If you have elevated PO4 don't feed them its that simple.

Green algae is quite literally like looking at visible nitrate in the tank. You cannot pick it up on a test kit because it is bound inside the cell walls of the algae. So whatever you are reading on your test kit for NO3 is a false low reading as well. By removing (scrubbing) the algae off the rocks you are actually removing that nitrate source from the tank. To do this you need to physically remove the rocks from the tank, scrub them off, and rinse them clean, in clean salt water then put them back(search "rip clean"). If you don't physically remove the algae from the tank it will just break free find somewhere else to hide then break down into spores and nirate and continue feeding/fueling new algae growth. By pulling the rocks out and removing the algae outside of the tank you you leave a lot less behind. While you are doing this it is also a good idea to change out all of your water. Just make sure that the PH, temp, and SG of the new water matches that of your current water. Your fish will be fine and the gsp won't be phased.

After doing all of this add a bunch of corals ASAP. Preferably corals like Zoas, leathers, mushrooms, and acans.... These corals are generally pretty hardy and don't require dosing or feeding much of anything. Corals are filter feeders and they will help to remove nitrate and phosphate from the water. If you tank has been running for a year and was started using ocean rock in the sump it is beyond ready for corals and needs some soon. The tank in this picture was started over the Thanksgiving holiday last year it is not a year old yet.

In mt experience You are not likely to find many answers to fix algae issues with ICP testing. I think that the overall purpose of ICP testing is misunderstood by a lot of people. The aim of those tests is more for improving coral health(growth and coloration)than detecting other issues with your tank. This has even been stated by the companies that perform the ICP testing numerous times. Waiting for an ICP result on a FOWLR tank just seems beyond silly to me.... just rip clean it fill it with clean new salt water and continue on.

 

[CHSUB]

Thank you much. Yes, protein skimmer, 2 MP40s and an MP10 to keep flow throughout tank.

Here’s what I’m up against. Sand bed looks decent because I manually cleaned the algae carpet today.

Tank looks nice, except the rock…you really need to remove the rock piece by piece and scrub with a new wire brush to remove the algae and rinse in tank water. Then continue with the maintenance I described going forward. After buy some corals, leathers and Zoas to give algae less real estate to grow. Hard to fight algae with just bare rock. Lot of corals not just one or two…

 

[bruno3047]

In 52 years of saltwater tank-keeping I found that there is really only one way to keep your tank algae-free. And that’s carbon dosing. I’m running a 125 rn and I’m dosing 55 mL per day of pure white vinegar. This allows one side wall to grow green algae so my Angels and my Tangs can pick at it. My two clowns like to rub against it too. If I increased it to 60 ML, I would have no algae at all. Get yourself a dosing pump and start out at 20 ML/day/hundred gallons, (adjust as required for your tank size). Wait two weeks and then increase 5ML, (adjusted for your tank size), every two weeks until you sense the tank starting to fog up. This is bacteria that you’re fostering with your carbon dosing. Back off 10 ML (adjusted for your tank size). You then need to find what is the correct level for your nitrate/phosphate levels. It’s a long process, but once you find the right level you’ll be happy as a pig in…you know what. I have not put my hands into my tank in years. To compensate for the pH hit that the vinegar provides, I’m dosing 10 ML per day of a kalk mix, one rounded teaspoon/gal. Good luck. My tank:

 

[RWReefer]

Algae problems usually stem from either a lack of herbivores or a lack of maintenance. In the early stages/ years of tank maturation and growth you are likely to experience a lot more of these blooms especially if you started with dry rock. From the pictures you showed it doesn't look like you have any corals on those rocks. Why not pull them out and scrub them clean. If you have sand you may consider replacing it or thoroughly rinsing it. Then add a ton of snails to keep the algae in check. When I say a ton of snails, I mean like 1-2 per gallon. Many people think 1-2 for the whole tank is enough. They are wrong.

Once the algae is long like what is in your tank none of the herbivores can eat it. Snails, urchins fish, and crabs scrape the algae from the rocks, they cannot eat it once the tufts get too long. You will have to scrub it all off and keep it short so the herbivores can eat it.

Phosphates bind to substrate, so if you are testing .2 PO4 there is likely 3-5x that amount bound in the rocks and sand. This "bound" PO4 will "adsorb" or "absorb" to maintain equilibrium with the water. It will also act as a nutrient source for your algae to feed on. If you want to lower the amount of PO4 in the substrate you will have to keep the PO4 in the water low enough for long enough for the rocks to release "adsorb" it. This can take months. You mentioned you are feeding TDO pellets occasionally. TDO or any kind of pellets or dry food for that matter is basically concentrated PO4. If you have elevated PO4 don't feed them its that simple.

Green algae is quite literally like looking at visible nitrate in the tank. You cannot pick it up on a test kit because it is bound inside the cell walls of the algae. So whatever you are reading on your test kit for NO3 is a false low reading as well. By removing (scrubbing) the algae off the rocks you are actually removing that nitrate source from the tank. To do this you need to physically remove the rocks from the tank, scrub them off, and rinse them clean, in clean salt water then put them back(search "rip clean"). If you don't physically remove the algae from the tank it will just break free find somewhere else to hide then break down into spores and nirate and continue feeding/fueling new algae growth. By pulling the rocks out and removing the algae outside of the tank you you leave a lot less behind. While you are doing this it is also a good idea to change out all of your water. Just make sure that the PH, temp, and SG of the new water matches that of your current water. Your fish will be fine and the gsp won't be phased.

After doing all of this add a bunch of corals ASAP. Preferably corals like Zoas, leathers, mushrooms, and acans.... These corals are generally pretty hardy and don't require dosing or feeding much of anything. Corals are filter feeders and they will help to remove nitrate and phosphate from the water. If you tank has been running for a year and was started using ocean rock in the sump it is beyond ready for corals and needs some soon. The tank in this picture was started over the Thanksgiving holiday last year it is not a year old yet.

In mt experience You are not likely to find many answers to fix algae issues with ICP testing. I think that the overall purpose of ICP testing is misunderstood by a lot of people. The aim of those tests is more for improving coral health(growth and coloration)than detecting other issues with your tank. This has even been stated by the companies that perform the ICP testing numerous times. Waiting for an ICP result on a FOWLR tank just seems beyond silly to me.... just rip clean it fill it with clean new salt water and continue on.

Appreciate the detailed response. After digesting the info folks have provided I think there’s a few things that contributed to where I am. Haven’t added any corals because I didn’t feel confident in being able to keep the alive due to GHA outbreak that I’ve been battling from the beginning.

Plan of action moving forward for the next few months will be:

1) no more TDO
2) continue GFO to pull any bound phosphates from rock
3) pull aquascape and scrub at least once a week (breaks down into 5 different sections).
4) cut back on feeding.
5) utilize canister filter when scrubbing walls/in tank cleaning.
6) increase clean up crew even more.

Hopefully that puts me on a path to sustainability.

 

[RWReefer]

Thank you much. Yes, protein skimmer, 2 MP40s and an MP10 to keep flow throughout tank.

Here’s what I’m up against. Sand bed looks decent because I manually cleaned the algae carpet today.

Tank looks nice, except the rock…you really need to remove the rock piece by piece and scrub with a new wire brush to remove the algae and rinse in tank water. Then continue with the maintenance I described going forward. After buy some corals, leathers and Zoas to give algae less real estate to grow. Hard to fight algae with just bare rock. Lot of corals not just one or two…

Do the rocks need to be scrubbed in saltwater or can it be done in open air and rinsed in tank water?

 

[CHSUB]

Appreciate the detailed response. After digesting the info folks have provided I think there’s a few things that contributed to where I am. Haven’t added any corals because I didn’t feel confident in being able to keep the alive due to GHA outbreak that I’ve been battling from the beginning.

Plan of action moving forward for the next few months will be:

1) no more TDO
2) continue GFO to pull any bound phosphates from rock
3) pull aquascape and scrub at least once a week (breaks down into 5 different sections).
4) cut back on feeding.
5) utilize canister filter when scrubbing walls/in tank cleaning.
6) increase clean up crew even more.

Hopefully that puts me on a path to sustainability.

One other thing…I see fish and snails which are just as hard as leather corals…go get some, and many after a good cleaning, sooner is better than later. When I start a new tank, I get corals before fish.

 

[CHSUB]

Do the rocks need to be scrubbed in saltwater or can it be done in open air and rinsed in tank water?

Either, but use salt water in both cases.

 

[dank.reefer]

Appreciate the detailed response. After digesting the info folks have provided I think there’s a few things that contributed to where I am. Haven’t added any corals because I didn’t feel confident in being able to keep the alive due to GHA outbreak that I’ve been battling from the beginning.

Plan of action moving forward for the next few months will be:

1) no more TDO
2) continue GFO to pull any bound phosphates from rock
3) pull aquascape and scrub at least once a week (breaks down into 5 different sections).
4) cut back on feeding.
5) utilize canister filter when scrubbing walls/in tank cleaning.
6) increase clean up crew even more.

Hopefully that puts me on a path to sustainability.

A month or so of that and you should be well on your way to reefing bliss. Once you add a heavy CUC and a bunch of corals you will hardly have to scrub the rocks at all.

Like others have said. Go get some corals.

 

[dank.reefer]

One other thing…I see fish and snails which are just as hard as leather corals…go get some, and many after a good cleaning, sooner is better than later. When I start a new tank, I get corals before fish.

There seems to be a lot of mis-information or confusion about when to add corals and tank nitrate cycling. The nitrate cycle is for your fish the corals don't need it. In fact I know a few people who keep fish less systems and just dose ammonia to feed corals. If you have a body of saltwater with relatively stable parameters with or without nitrifiying bacteria you can keep corals alive in it. The sooner you add corals the better.

 

[bruno3047]

As an addendum to my previous post, the reason why you need to wait two weeks between moves is because what you’re actually doing is building a bacteria culture, much like you did when you cycled your tank, except this bacteria doesn’t eat ammonia and nitrites, this bacteria eats nitrates and phosphates. With each move, you need to wait two weeks for the move to show results. Good luck.

PS. I’m 69 years old with arthritic hands and if I hadn’t discovered carbon dosing, I would’ve been out of this hobby a long time ago.

 

[jackintheboxfish]

Question about your experience of carbon dosing. It sounds like it’s a really good method of lowering nutrients and outcompete algae. However, if the nutrients are too low, wouldn’t the corals get starved of nutrients? Also if nutrients bottom out, is there other risks like Dino?

 

[reeferpdx415]

There’s no other way to put it. GHA is destroying my enjoyment of this hobby. It’s on everything. Glass, rocks, growing in GSP, powerheads, etc.

Tank is over a year old now. Started with dry Marco rock aquascape and live rock in sump. 7 current fish, plus an abundance of turbo snails, ceriths, an urchin, a couple conchs. Just added a tomini tang to help.

Current parameters:
Nitrate: 7.9
Phosphate: 0.23
Alk: 7.8

Was lax on tank care for a bit as life took over. I’ve been diligently pulling GHA out, scrubbing rocks clean and siphoning out the GHA, have auto water change set up and going, pulling clumps of GHA off the sand bed every couple of days, running an algae scrubber in the sump.

Not sure what else I can do to get this under control. Any help is appreciated.

I don’t have experience with them but have seen people suggest sea hares for outbreaks this bad. It likely will take care of all of that and then starve to death.

If someone knows more please feel free to correct me!

I had a similar problem in my Nano. Stuck 6 tuxedo urchins in there and it’s almost gone.

 

[mcarroll]

Tank is over a year old now. Started with dry Marco rock aquascape and live rock in sump. 7 current fish, plus an abundance of turbo snails, ceriths, an urchin, a couple conchs. Just added a tomini tang to help.

Still a very young tank, and mostly unpopulated from the looks of it.

Starting with dry rock is cheap, but as the saying goes "cheap has a cost" and this is it.

Way too soon for the bio-load you have so be thankful for the algae – it's doing a good job keeping the water perfect for your fish!

This is a tall order, but if you can, consider scaling the bio-load as close to zero as you can, get the tank back under control and re-stock s-l-o-w-l-y. This will make recovery SO much easier since you're still getting used to all this.

But if you can't do that, keep reading. :)

Current parameters:
Nitrate: 7.9
Phosphate: 0.23
Alk: 7.8

Fine, as long as those numbers are relatively stable.

Was lax on tank care for a bit as life took over.

This happens to us all. :) (But also is *exactly* what pest algae is waiting for.)

I’ve been diligently pulling GHA out, scrubbing rocks clean and siphoning out the GHA, have auto water change set up and going, pulling clumps of GHA off the sand bed every couple of days, running an algae scrubber in the sump.

Half right and half wrong. Be aggressive with manual removal. But you have to baby your rock if you ever want something else more delicate and interesting than algae to grow on it.

NO MORE SCRUBBING. Do not take the rock out of the water.

Sand bed is always a lots cause – just remove the algae ridden parts like you have been.

Pull your algae like this.....IMO less hassle than using extra filters:

(the other advice in the vid is more particular to his system)

Since you have a lot of area to cover, work in small 2x2" patches until each patch is TOTALLY clean and take breaks after 20 min.

Currently feeding frozen brine shrimp that has been defrosted and rinsed as well as a snack of TDO chromaboost every now and then.

Not sure what else I can do to get this under control. Any help is appreciated.

Don't limit feedings of your fish – keep them well fed. Just make sure you aren't overfeeding or wasting food.

The correct option is to lower your bio-load (which lowers feeding) as already mentioned. IMO you system isn't going to handle this bio-load **well** for a while. Just too much too soon, and the algae took over.

No ICP test yet but will do one if it’ll help.

No.

I’ve got two MP40s and an MP10 running alternate reef crest and steady, algae is moving around in the tank so flow should be good.

You could do more good with something like a Tunze 6045 in place of the mp10. The 10's useful reach is about 12". The 6045 is good for 3-4'.

pH fluctuates between 8.4 and 8.7, was less when I had the lights off.

Seems like a good range (+/- 0.3) but the numbers can't be right.

For feeding everything is consumed within a couple minutes of adding to the tank. I don’t feel like I’m over feeding.

Good

I’ve got a 7 stage BRS and threw on an extra mixed bed at the end so I am 0 TDS for all water.

I want to go as natural as possible and I appreciate you taking the time to write all that up.

Seems fine.

pH could be a calibration issue. Recalibrated and will see where it falls.

I just added first corals like 2 weeks ago so I haven’t had to do any dosing to date. Observing GSP now for how much I will need to dose based on uptake. But the tank is literally just a one spot foxface, a tiny tomini tang, two clowns, a mccoskers wrasse, purple firefish, and royal gramma in a water box 110. Shouldn’t be an overstock issue.

Overstocking isn't a simple numbers game.

As mentioned, it's just too much too soon and algae was allowed to take over. You can have 8 fish "someday" and it's better done slowly in terms of the tank....allow the tank's carrying capacity (ie max bio-load) to develop naturally. Can't be rushed either – not without leaving the reefy part of the reef out of it.

It's predictable, and it happens to LOTS of us.

Appreciate the reply. I will pull back on feeding for a while and keep up with manual removal. Scrubbed rocks clean a week ago and it all came back with a vengeance within that next week. Slightly discouraging but we forge on.

It will continue each time you clean the rocks for them. GHA are EXCELLENT at settlement, and aragonite is an ideal settling medium. So you're doing them a tremendous favor each time you scrub.

You need OTHER THINGS to grow there – reefy things. :) No more scrubbing.

Thank you much. Yes, protein skimmer, 2 MP40s and an MP10 to keep flow throughout tank.

Good.

Here’s what I’m up against. Sand bed looks decent because I manually cleaned the algae carpet today.

Not great, but not the end of the world. As you said, forge on – just no shortcuts!

Appreciate the detailed response. After digesting the info folks have provided I think there’s a few things that contributed to where I am. Haven’t added any corals because I didn’t feel confident in being able to keep the alive due to GHA outbreak that I’ve been battling from the beginning.

In a saltwater book I have from the 1950's the author (Straughn) suggested that beginning with live rock and corals would be the easiest/best way to start a tank.

Corals take real estate from algae.

Plan of action moving forward for the next few months will be:

1) no more TDO

Probably unnecessary, but unless it's going to waste there should also be no real problem with feeding it.

2) continue GFO to pull any bound phosphates from rock

No. PO4 is in equilibrium with the water and rock....the binding/unbinding process is rapid, almost instant.

Not really an actual problem.

3) pull aquascape and scrub at least once a week (breaks down into 5 different sections).

Sorry, but this is still a "no" for reasons that are probably apparent by now.

4) cut back on feeding.

Only if you aren't doing it right, as already mentioned.

5) utilize canister filter when scrubbing walls/in tank cleaning.

Certainly do whatever you prefer, but that is make-work IMO. Easier better is in melev's video I linked.

6) increase clean up crew even more.

BING BING BING
The #2 answer.

To echo another comment, you might need up to 2 snails per gallon – and with an outbreak like that, I would start with a pretty high number to give your cleaning efforts the maximum assist possible. If the sytem is 100 gallons, that means bumping up to something like 50 Turbo snails, or equivalent. (Try to make almost 100% large snails tho....don't swap much of that 50 for things like Certiths, as much as I love them they are tiny and it will take millions. ;)) Don't add more scavengers, like hermits and nassarius snails.

Remember, the CUC will have to do their current job AND keep all the new areas clean that you work on. That means more and more area for those little snails to cover 24/7.

Hopefully that puts me on a path to sustainability.

Not quite....I don't see where you've considered UV filtration or micron filtration. Both can eliminate algae swarmers and slow down the spread of algae into cleared areas.

Highly recommended. UV should be generally available. Check out @Paul B 's DIY micron filter plan if you can't find a micron filter locally.

Do the rocks need to be scrubbed in saltwater or can it be done in open air and rinsed in tank water?

No more scrubbing! :) :) :)

 

[Naekuh]

If you have no corals, id say its time for FluxRX aka Fluconazole.
Im probably gonna get crucified for saying this.... but.... right now unless you have a LOT of patience and wanna keep picking and scrubbing for months, i don't see a easier working solution.

However note, after you nuke your tank with Fluc, you will probably get a cyano explosion and in essence have to go though another restart. But it will give you time to combat the hair algae from never coming back.

 

[fandaga]

I had really bad gha over the summer in my 47g AIO tank for several months when my phosphate spiked from 0 to 0.5. I was actually dosing phosphate because it was so low for the first 1.5 years of my tank, and now I can’t get it below 0.3. I’m not sure what did the trick with getting rid of the gha. I upped the flow, added a larger CUC including 3 urchins, started 20% weekly water changes, added gfo, tried period black outs, and started dosing bacteria products like PNS.

 

[Louis Z]

I believe with such varied outcomes that there is probably a multitude of different hair algae species . Some are sensitive to some treatments while resistant to others . I had battled GHA for three years . My turning point was when I had a purple black cyano growing . It was toxic to kill off some of the GHA . I couldn’t let it run its course cause the fish were also affected . . Flux Rx didn’t help . Lights out did the final death blow to GHA . . So a multi prong approach is required with a lot of patience . . I still do lights out at different times to make sure it doesnt come back . Over thanksgiving break I am doing 2 weeks of no light . I still have that GHA in another 20 gal tank . As tenacious as it was and fast growing , I consider it a great filter and possible food source . I am considering to buy some gold ring cowries or abalones as a breeding project

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

I would also check your tds with a meter. Phosphate needs to get down lower IMO. An urchin and more CUC snails would help.

 

[Jasonak]

I skimmed but didn't see what is your current light schedule ?