Ich, Again??

[joro]

After my last crash in the DT from a deadly combo of ich/velvet/brook, I heeded everyone's advice and decided to setup up a QT (2 in fact) and let the display sit for 72 days fallow. I just introduced the first fish into the DT from the QT process (which included 32 days of therapeutic CopperSafe level and 2x PraziPro Treatments) two weeks ago on the 22nd. I came home today to see our Kole Tang has white spots which appear to be ich :( Can you all take a look at the video and confirm that's what you see? It's most notable when she turns one way or another throughout the video FYI.

I'm so upset right now because of all the time and energy put into this only to have it pop up again just two short weeks after they were introduced. There are no other inhabitants in the DT expect for the 3 fish, corals (including a RBTA), and a few inverts (2 shrimp and a handful of blue-legged hermits). The 2 QTs are currently stocked with new groups of fish and I'm not sure what I should do...:confused:

 

[joro]

It looks like the compression on Youtube made this a little hard to see, so I'm re-uploading right now in 1080P. Here's a screenshot though in one of the turns -

 

[joro]

Here are some pics, may be easier to see

 

[rlman41299]

it is possible. Did you introduce anything into th etank while you are running it fallow for 72 days? Did you by any chance add any corals or inverts from another source?

 

[melypr1985]

In the video and the picture they dont look like ick. They dont look raised or under the skin. It looks larger than ick and spread out. I'm not sure, I see it and think flukes, but they arn't usually that noticeable.

 

[monkiboy]

were any corals and inverts added quarantined?

 

[joro]

it is possible. Did you introduce anything into th etank while you are running it fallow for 72 days? Did you by any chance add any corals or inverts from another source?

were any corals and inverts added quarantined?

We did add some corals; however, we were very selective in making sure they were from "Coral Only" systems which weren't mixed with Fish. We did dip all of them (CoralRX) but I don't think it kills ich-type parasites. Perhaps this was the mistake :(

In the video and the picture they dont look like ick. They dont look raised or under the skin. It looks larger than ick and spread out. I'm not sure, I see it and think flukes, but they arn't usually that noticeable.

After further observations, you're correct the ones on the tang don't really seemed to be raised and, if they are, it a very tiny amount. What's worrying; however, is that we do see spots on the clowns as well. I got my pro camera out and took some quick photos below which show everything better.

 

[joro]

Any chance it could be stings from the RBTA? It's been moving around the last few days and it's possible they ran into it? The clowns aren't hosting FWIW.

 

[4FordFamily]

Yup you've got a problem...

What copper did you use? I've had trouble with cupramine not killing off ich in the past... Even at 2x+ the therapeutic dose.

The other thing is if copper levels swing down at all under the therapeutic range (assuming you tested with the proper test kit or followed the instructions properly) you have to restart the clock. If you added any fish during that time period to the qt, you have to restart the clock.

I have an issue with cross contamination too I have a known ich management tank that I stick my hand in to add nori, shared water changing hoses with, among other stupid mistakes that got me.

Moving corals could certainly do it :/

 

[4FordFamily]

Any chance it could be stings from the RBTA? It's been moving around the last few days and it's possible they ran into it? The clowns aren't hosting FWIW.

No you definitely have ich for velvet I'm guessing ich from your recent photos although a few days will tell the full story. I'm not the best at ID'ing at this stage

 

[joro]

Yup you've got a problem...

What copper did you use? I've had trouble with cupramine not killing off ich in the past... Even at 2x+ the therapeutic dose.

The other thing is if copper levels swing down at all under the therapeutic range (assuming you tested with the proper test kit or followed the instructions properly) you have to restart the clock. If you added any fish during that time period to the qt, you have to restart the clock.

I have an issue with cross contamination too I have a known ich management tank that I stick my hand in to add nori, shared water changing hoses with, among other stupid mistakes that got me.

Moving corals could certainly do it :/

I used CopperSafe which I kept at 2.0 the entire 32 days - concentration was measured atleast once a day via an API Test Kit. While this group was in QT, nothing was added/changed within in the QT so it definitely was the full 32 days for Cu.

No you definitely have ich for velvet I'm guessing ich from your recent photos although a few days will tell the full story. I'm not the best at ID'ing at this stage

Ugh :(

 

[4FordFamily]

I used CopperSafe which I kept at 2.0 the entire 32 days - concentration was measured atleast once a day via an API Test Kit. While this group was in QT, nothing was added/changed within in the QT so it definitely was the full 32 days for Cu.



Ugh :(

It's happened to me many times. 30 days is shaky, I always push the envelope. I'm sorry you're having issues.

Is it possible you have a small goby, or a fish in the sump or overflows somewhere you didn't know about and thought was dead? Move anything from the qt to the DT (even wet hands) during the process?

 

[monkiboy]

We did add some corals; however, we were very selective in making sure they were from "Coral Only" systems which weren't mixed with Fish. We did dip all of them (CoralRX) but I don't think it kills ich-type parasites. Perhaps this was the mistake :(

so unless the coral only systems did not add any fish or other corals from tanks where fish were kept for 76 days and no cross contamination happened it's possible to bring parasite on piggy back.

 

[monkiboy]

Any chance it could be stings from the RBTA? It's been moving around the last few days and it's possible they ran into it? The clowns aren't hosting FWIW.

usually you don't see these marks from an anemone but "nemo" looks like it could have some hypermelanization perhaps from sleeping near other coral. the single spot on nemo looks like possible lymph. is it raised?

 

[joro]

It's happened to me many times. 30 days is shaky, I always push the envelope. I'm sorry you're having issues.

Is it possible you have a small goby, or a fish in the sump or overflows somewhere you didn't know about and thought was dead? Move anything from the qt to the DT (even wet hands) during the process?

When we had the last outbreak, everyone died with the exception of a goby which we finally got out. Unfortunately he decided to go carpet surfing a few days later from the QT, so everyone was accounted for when we went fallow.

In terms of cross contamination its possible I guess; however, the DT and QTS are on different floors and we don't share any stuff between them (buckets, nori clips, brushes, etc). The only thing that is "shared" is the RODI but we've been very careful to make sure the nozzle doesn't touch the QT buckets.

 

[melypr1985]

We did add some corals; however, we were very selective in making sure they were from "Coral Only" systems which weren't mixed with Fish. We did dip all of them (CoralRX) but I don't think it kills ich-type parasites. Perhaps this was the mistake :(



After further observations, you're correct the ones on the tang don't really seemed to be raised and, if they are, it a very tiny amount. What's worrying; however, is that we do see spots on the clowns as well. I got my pro camera out and took some quick photos below which show everything better.

I take it back. That looks like ick to me. Sorry hun.

 

[melypr1985]

If copper didn't work for you (assuming the cross contamination didn't happen and the level never dropped ect) then I would highly recommend TTM instead. It's quicker, no chemicals and very effective. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

 

[domination2580]

I'd say ich

 

[Humblefish]

We did add some corals; however, we were very selective in making sure they were from "Coral Only" systems which weren't mixed with Fish. We did dip all of them (CoralRX) but I don't think it kills ich-type parasites. Perhaps this was the mistake :(

^^Here is the most likely explanation. Were the "coral only" systems within 10 feet of a fish system? Were they plumbed into another system or common sump? Also, most "coral only" systems have a few fish swimming around to feed the corals via their poop.

 

[joro]

So when the lights came on today in the DT, I had another look at the Kole Tang and the white spots definitely don't looked raised, they look flush with the skin. Is it normal for ich to present like this or should they be raised spots?

Also, I'm now trying to decide best course of action. As mentioned I have two QTs; however, both are currently filled with new groups of fish. One tank is almost done with their 30 days of Copper and the other has the Blue Star Leopard Wrasses I was trying to avoid using Cu on. Given the DT is stocked with coral, what would you all suggest? :confused: