Ich, and how to stop it before it begins

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by mopsinc, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Dogtown

    Dogtown Active Member

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    CP will kill all of the ich. 100%.

    Plan to keep your display tank medicated for 90 days. No inverts or corals while the medication is in the tank. No carbon or water changes either. After 90 days, your fish will be healthy and parasite free.

    On day 91, do a 33% water change and start running carbon. The more the better.

    On day 95, do another 33% water change. Replace the carbon.

    On day 99, do another 33% water change, replace the carbon again.

    On day 100, add 3 cheap snails. Wait 7 days and if they are all alive, you can add back you corals and other inverts. If not, do another 33% water change and replace your carbon.

    Hint: I only replaced 20% of my water and ran carbon for a week. The snail test failed. Waited another week and replaced the carbon. Got some more snails and this time, they lived. Tank has been fine for 7 months since.

    Happy reefing!
     
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  2. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    Is there a way I can not replace so much water? Because the water was expensive to buy, and a pain to carry down to the basement 2 5 gallon jugs at a time. If I just replace a lot of carbon and maybe do 20% water change and wait it out over 100 days could it be clear?
     
  3. Dogtown

    Dogtown Active Member

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    Yes, the CP treatment will still eradicate this pest and save your fish from dying if you get started sooner that later. The water changes are just to get your tank back to an unmedicated state as quickly as possible post treatment.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  4. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    There is no question as to how effective CP can be. I am using CP in my QT system currently. For most fish it is the safest option and much less harsh than copper.

    You can read more about it here.
    https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

    Just remember that you need to pull all your corals and your invertebrates.
     
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  5. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Agreed.
     
  6. Fishfinder

    Fishfinder Valuable Member

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    Going from 4 spots to 12 spots in the course of a day sounds like more than ick to me.

    Unfortunately with the way this is progressing you really need to remove your fish. They will slowly deteriate over the next, I think you will ultimately loose them. You can get a qt for less than $50. CP will be hard for you to get unless you go see a vet. But it is the easiest/safest treatment.
     
  7. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Ich usually takes 3-5 days to show significant increases of spots. Faster timelines usually indicate velvet.
     
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  8. Gmj4409

    Gmj4409 Active Member R2R Supporter

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    +1 Urgency to make decision should be high right now.
     
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  9. Dogtown

    Dogtown Active Member

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    7EE793FF-3A38-4F7F-AEF5-317F70E5AB37.jpeg

    New life spectrum ick shield POWDER is an effective and readily available form of CP. This is what I use and it works. Get started today.

    There is also a pellet version that is a form of medicated fish food Which also has CP. Fish Do eat it but, like I said earlier, you want to treat the entire tank with the powder first and foremost. The medicated fish food is a secondary treatment.

    Now if you are flat out not going to treat the entire tank with the powder, at least get the medicated fish food. Read the instructions thoroughly.

     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  10. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    Ok. Roughly 12 hours later. I just checked on the fish and the tang that had 12 white specks (the purple tang) now has 0. From what I could check all the white spots are gone on the tangs? Maybe this isn’t ich then? I’m not quite sure what to do now. I tried to take pictures the other day but it’s hard under blue light, but these where very tiny white dots. Pin sized almost. I am definitely going to get a QT when I have the money again, but now I’m sorta confused as to what this is and what to do. None of the other fish ever developed these dots either, and these dots came and went in almost a 2 day period
     
  11. KMench

    KMench Well-Known Member Delaware Reef Club Build Thread Contributor

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    That’s about the timeframe where the ich encysts on the fish. They then fall off and reproduce. It’ll show back up in a few days, with more spots most likely.
     
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  12. Fishfinder

    Fishfinder Valuable Member

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    If the spots are coming and going that quickly velvet is probably the culprit. They won't survive that unless you get meds on them
     
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  13. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    That isn't completely unusual. Tiny pin sized dots is a bad sign.

    I recommend continuing on the path you are going. There is a good chance you will see more spots in 3 to 5 days. What happens is that these parasites feed on the fish leaving that white spot (which is not the parasite, btw). They feed anywhere from 1 to 5 days depending on the specific parasite and strain. It then encysts on a hard surface like glass or rock where it reproduces. This process can happen in 48 hours out to 62 days. Each cyst will release 25 to 400 new parasites which then attack the fish.

    With QT not being a viable option I still recommend using H2O2 until you can get some Polyp Lab Medic or similar reef safe treatment. It isn't as effective as proper QT treatments but it may be the best you can do under your current constraints.
     
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  14. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    And to add— if this is velvet as i suspect, management of any kind is almost guaranteed to fail :(
     
  15. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    Ok so after looking it up, I would say that the purple for sure has (had) velvet. Looking at pictures online of a purple tang with velvet almost seem identical. The white specks along with a change in color around where the specks where.
    So now that I’d call this velvet, how do you get rid of it? I honestly don’t even know how my system got it so fast... it’s been running since the 19th it December id say.
     
  16. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    Velvet and Ich are similar and have very similar treatments. There is currently no reef safe way to complete eradicate it. Unless you pull all your coral/inverts and treat your tank with CP or copper you will always have it in your system.
    The same products that help limit ich will also help limit velvet.
     
  17. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    Ok after doing a quick read up, to my understanding velvet is like you said very similar to ich but almost in a sense worse. I’ll see if I can get CP. Thanks for the help. I’m going to do the H2O2 for now until I get some CP.
     
  18. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    Glad to help. And yes, Velvet is very much like Ich only faster, smaller, and deadlier.

    Good luck and please, ask as many questions as you need to! Lots of great references in the Fish disease section of the forums, too!
     
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  19. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    I am going to buy some CP online, how much should I get? Smallest option is 10 grams largest option is 250 grams
     
  20. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Partner Member 2018 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    I would try to hit 80mg per gallon since you are going to do it in a tank with rock. I also think you should hit your tank with it at least twice, 30 days apart. So take your estimated water volume in gallons, times 2, times 0.08 and that will give the minimum amount you should get.
     
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