Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans)

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Humblefish

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So what is the point of products like API's "Super Ich Cure" if you have to go through this whole copper process to eradicate ich?

To take your money.

Although to be fair, that product does contain malachite green which might eradicate freshwater ich (Ichthyophthirius). But I've tested it against saltwater ich (Cryptocaryon), and while symptoms were suppressed, complete eradication did not occur.

When in doubt, find the product's MSDS: http://www.apifishcare.com/pdf/3305...SVendors_2014_February_06_05-18-54-097_AM.pdf

Search for ingredients, and then research what those listed ingredients have been proven to do.
 

Tanggy

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I am just a little confused. If anyone can shed some light that would be awesome. I have a 125 gal reef tank. Had a yellow tang that had velvet and died back in Sept 2017. I also had a flame angel fish and 2 clowns in there. I quarantine them with copper for 2 wks and 1 wks observation with no sign of infection. After that 1 wk observation I bought a powder blue tang and a purple tang (roughly 2.5 inches) and I dose with copper again for 3.5 wks in the same quarantine. Followed by 1 wk of observation. No sign of disease. During this quarantine time the DT is left fallow about 8 wks. After the 8 wk fallow period I placed the flame angel, PB tang and purple tang into the DT. Within 3 days the PB tang and purple developed ICH. What went wrong??? Should I waited a bit longer with the quarantine or letting the DT fallow more than 8 wks?
 

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I am just a little confused. If anyone can shed some light that would be awesome. I have a 125 gal reef tank. Had a yellow tang that had velvet and died back in Sept 2017. I also had a flame angel fish and 2 clowns in there. I quarantine them with copper for 2 wks and 1 wks observation with no sign of infection. After that 1 wk observation I bought a powder blue tang and a purple tang (roughly 2.5 inches) and I dose with copper again for 3.5 wks in the same quarantine. Followed by 1 wk of observation. No sign of disease. During this quarantine time the DT is left fallow about 8 wks. After the 8 wk fallow period I placed the flame angel, PB tang and purple tang into the DT. Within 3 days the PB tang and purple developed ICH. What went wrong??? Should I waited a bit longer with the quarantine or letting the DT fallow more than 8 wks?
The normal fallow period for ich is 72-76 days. That being said, I've actually had good luck controlling ich in a display tank with 5-nitroimidazole. The process isn't fast or cheap, but it's WAY cheaper than replacing all of your fish.
 

Tanggy

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The normal fallow period for ich is 72-76 days. That being said, I've actually had good luck controlling ich in a display tank with 5-nitroimidazole. The process isn't fast or cheap, but it's WAY cheaper than replacing all of your fish.

What is in involved in treating the DT with 5-niroimidazole? dosage and time? Will it just manage ICH or eradicate it?
 

4FordFamily

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I am just a little confused. If anyone can shed some light that would be awesome. I have a 125 gal reef tank. Had a yellow tang that had velvet and died back in Sept 2017. I also had a flame angel fish and 2 clowns in there. I quarantine them with copper for 2 wks and 1 wks observation with no sign of infection. After that 1 wk observation I bought a powder blue tang and a purple tang (roughly 2.5 inches) and I dose with copper again for 3.5 wks in the same quarantine. Followed by 1 wk of observation. No sign of disease. During this quarantine time the DT is left fallow about 8 wks. After the 8 wk fallow period I placed the flame angel, PB tang and purple tang into the DT. Within 3 days the PB tang and purple developed ICH. What went wrong??? Should I waited a bit longer with the quarantine or letting the DT fallow more than 8 wks?
Takes 1 month to be certain. A common reason fallow periods fail are when you cross contaminate (share drain hoses, nets, equipment, or most common - sticking arm in qt and then in to old day I thought antibacterial and rinsing arm suffixed — nope) or left a small fish in sump you thought was dead or gone (tiny ywg for me so it never truly went fallow).
 

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What is in involved in treating the DT with 5-niroimidazole? dosage and time? Will it just manage ICH or eradicate it?
It's not too bad. I'm using the Kick Ich solution. The dosage is 2 oz. per 25 gallons. There is a complicated schedule, but I just dose it every other day. I think if you dosed it long enough, you probably could eradicate the ich, but that's just my opinion.
 

Blue Carbon Reefing

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@Humblefish What is the longest I should see white spots on a fish in QT with a therapeutic level of Chelated copper (around 2.0ppm) according to an API test kit? I have ramped up to a therapeutic level over about 7 days. test kits are testing at 2.0 and it has been about 7 days at 2.0 and a couple of fish (Pacific Blue Tang and Fox face) are still showing a few white spots. It appears the parasite should be attached to the fish for up to 7 -10 days but theoretically couldn't spots show up as late as 72 days if I have the worst known strand? I am assuming some how they parasite was able to fall off the fish encrust on the glass and turn into the incubation stage releasing new tomites for up to that time period. Maybe before I was able to bring the copper level to a therapeutic level. I am just curious of when I should start feeling confident that my QT water is parasite free. I am slightly paranoid because I just went Fallow for 80 plus days and somehow reintroduced Ich back into my main display without adding anything wet to the tank. Or I have a copper resistant strand and need to try other methods. Is that possible?

Thank you as always!
 
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@Blue Carbon Reefing Once copper has reached full therapeutic (very important), you shouldn't see evidence of trophonts (white dots) on any of your fish after 7-10 days. Technically the trophont can only feed for 7 days max before dropping off, but it may take another 2-3 days for the white spot (excess mucous) to completely clear.
 

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Trophont:
The “feeding stage” of the parasite that attaches itself to the fish, commonly associated with salt or sugar-like “sprinkles” on the body or fins. These sprinkles are not the actual parasite, as all stages of ich are invisible to the naked eye. The sprinkles are actually “exit wounds” from the trophonts; they look white because excess mucous builds up around the tiny “bite marks” inflicted by trophonts.​

1) Other sources imply it's an "entrance wound," or an inflammatory response to the presence of the trophont. Are these other sources wrong?

2) I've also read that the white spots get slightly larger as the trophont continues to feed. Is this incorrect?​
 
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1) Other sources imply it's an "entrance wound," or an inflammatory response to the presence of the trophont. Are these other sources wrong?
I guess "entrance wound" is a more accurate description. The white spots are excess mucous which builds up around the insertion points, where the theront burrows in and becomes a trophont.

2) I've also read that the white spots get slightly larger as the trophont continues to feed. Is this incorrect?
Ich trophonts range in size from 48 x 27 to 452 x 360 micrometers. They start off small but then grow in size before dropping off.
 

siniang

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Question: For ich, is it usually more than one white spot? And in what timeframe should they multiply?

I have a trigger that has one white spot between his eyes, discovered it yesterday. No other spots seen so far (knock on wood!). He's active, eating, and not showing any other symptoms.

Possibility of velvet?

I can't get a picture, it's really only visible when he comes close to the glass, which he doesn't when I'm standing there.
 

Claus84

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hey all, quick question re trophonts. I understand the white spots we see are the fishes reaction to the trophont and that the parasite is not visible itself but how long do the visible white spots last? Do they remain as long as the trophont is feeding (3-7 days) or can the spots dissapear sooner (say a few hours) even though the trophont is still present?

Thanks

Nick
 

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Ok so here's the predicament, I have ich and I don't have QT and would have to set one up tonight. I would dose copper right into the tank, but heard that it can be absorbed by the rock and sand. So how long would it take with weekly water changes to remove the copper to reef safe levels (if ever)? I don't have corals yet and have a friend with a tank that I can temporarily move my snails to. If I move the fish to QT and dose them there, would my tank still have to be fallow? Or did I catch it soon enough that I could put the fish back in after the 30 days? My tank is only 2 months old so would it be better to just tear the tank down while they're in QT and recycle it and restart?
 

MuscleBobBuffPants

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@Humblefish your website mentions a new fallow period of only 42 days if the water temperature is 80 degrees - but this article has not been updated. Can you confirm again that you only need to QT corals for 42 days to prevent Ich and velvet from making it into a display after QT?

 

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