Ich or Velvet Breakout just after completing QT and going into DT

[underthereef]

Hi All,

I have an emergency situation unfolding. I just graduated my midas blenny from quarantine into my 180G display 3 days ago. I treated with 2 doses prazi, 5 doses of metro, and cupramine at .5mg/l.

I now noticed this morning he had some white spots on him but it was super faint/small and I thought maybe it was rock powder from his new cave home (still a really new tank). Now this evening I definitely confirmed some new white spots on him. He's such a fast swimmer and some of the spots are so faint its hard to be certain but sometimes when he turns it becomes more definite. a couple spots are larger. He's still acting normal and eating otherwise.

Is there a chance he can have something besides Ich/Velvet?? If they get scratched or nicked on a rock can it cause a white mark? Or am I still in disbelief and denial?

Other fish: 2 clowns, white tail kole tang all acting normally no symptoms. no corals or inverts.

What is the best approach to this? I know I should probably act fast.

My current QT is 20G with a pink spot watchmen goby in it currently. Can a cycled 20g QT support all my fish for a fallow period in my DT and do I run copper for the full 76+ days? Is that safe for the fish?

Should I do a TTM instead? If so; would a 10G tank be enough for this many fish doing a TTM? Please help me come up with the correct action plan.

Would I include the new goby with other fish in TTM then add them all to a new sanitized QT after TTM? Or keep goby in QT while doing TTM then add with goby after?

Or is it best to just add them all to the QT now and run it for the fallow period?

This was my worst nightmare IDK how this happened; obviously I need stronger copper dosing and better cross contamination processes going forward. At least this happened early in the tanks life not later with more fish and tons of grown out corals etc on the bright side but I'm still super bummed and scared to lose any of my current fish.

 

[blaxsun]

#fishmedic

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi All,

I have an emergency situation unfolding. I just graduated my midas blenny from quarantine into my 180G display 3 days ago. I treated with 2 doses prazi, 5 doses of metro, and cupramine at .5mg/l.

I now noticed this morning he had some white spots on him but it was super faint/small and I thought maybe it was rock powder from his new cave home (still a really new tank). Now this evening I definitely confirmed some new white spots on him. He's such a fast swimmer and some of the spots are so faint its hard to be certain but sometimes when he turns it becomes more definite. a couple spots are larger. He's still acting normal and eating otherwise.

Is there a chance he can have something besides Ich/Velvet?? If they get scratched or nicked on a rock can it cause a white mark? Or am I still in disbelief and denial?

Other fish: 2 clowns, white tail kole tang all acting normally no symptoms. no corals or inverts.

What is the best approach to this? I know I should probably act fast.

My current QT is 20G with a pink spot watchmen goby in it currently. Can a cycled 20g QT support all my fish for a fallow period in my DT and do I run copper for the full 76+ days? Is that safe for the fish?

Should I do a TTM instead? If so; would a 10G tank be enough for this many fish doing a TTM? Please help me come up with the correct action plan.

Would I include the new goby with other fish in TTM then add them all to a new sanitized QT after TTM? Or keep goby in QT while doing TTM then add with goby after?

Or is it best to just add them all to the QT now and run it for the fallow period?

This was my worst nightmare IDK how this happened; obviously I need stronger copper dosing and better cross contamination processes going forward. At least this happened early in the tanks life not later with more fish and tons of grown out corals etc on the bright side but I'm still super bummed and scared to lose any of my current fish.

Pics under white lighting will be helpful with assessment

 

[Sharkbait19]

How long was the fish in copper for?
Any new additions that weren’t quarantined?
Is the white the only sign, or is the fish acting off in any other way (swimming into flow, breathing fast)?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't think TTM will work in this case (if it is ich) since you need to have somewhere to put the fish when done, because your DT will have to lay fallow for 45 to 60 days.

Your copper dose was fine, but Seachem says 14 days, and I think 30 days is safer.

No quarantine process is 100%, but you're correct in that biosecurity is the usual point of breakdown. Could there have been ich in the tank all along? Were there any non-quarantined fish in there that could have been hiding a chronic infection?

Jay

 

[underthereef]

As of this morning still no other symptoms; he's acting completely normal.

The thing I'm having trouble with is the spots are so faint for the most part I have to really try and focus to get a glimpse of some. I can really only see them in the perfect lighting when he turns a certain way. And he's constantly swimming/wagging his body so its incredibly hard to get any pictures. But I'm trying...

Another odd thing is that I feel like the spots are changing?? Sometimes I see them sometimes it seems like their gone. Or I'll see some in some spots, then those will be gone and I see some in new spots. But they shouldn't be changing that fast right?? That's why I feel like they are just super faint but I'm not sure.

All the other fish were also quarantined and never showed any signs of infection. It was a new tank set up so I don't believe it was in the tank already... unless somehow it got contaminated. But I've been using separate stuff etc.

 

[underthereef]

Update: the spots are DEFINITELY changing rapidly. I know it's not in my head. LOL. I will check on him one minute and don't see spots in one spot then the next moment it will be clear as day then gone again 30 minutes later. I got some pics of these new clear ones that showed up:

 

[vetteguy53081]

Update: the spots are DEFINITELY changing rapidly. I know it's not in my head. LOL. I will check on him one minute and don't see spots in one spot then the next moment it will be clear as day then gone again 30 minutes later. I got some pics of these new clear ones that showed up:

Assure it’s not sand which often happens.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Ich spots will fall off and new ones will appear every few days.
How big are the spots? Is this a black clown or an orange one? Mucus shows up pretty prominently on black clowns even when there is no problem.

 

[underthereef]

Assure it’s not sand which often happens.

Ich spots will fall off and new ones will appear every few days.
How big are the spots? Is this a black clown or an orange one? Mucus shows up pretty prominently on black clowns even when there is no problem.

I posted pics above ^

 

[Wilsonbem]

There is a product from polyp lab called medic.... treats white spot in a reef tank without affecting the corals. I dont have a QT and when i added a regal tang it got white spot, the foxface soon developed it. I treated the tank with medic.... the tang died but the foxface made a full recovery... the other inhabitants didnt get any ich. (Yellow tang, dwarf angels, clowns etc ) so i swear by this product but i know some people think it doesnt work. I have been free of ich for about 8 months now, there are about 30 happy disease free fish in my DT. No plans to add anything else as i get nervous about an outbreak of ich then hoping medic sorts it

 

[vetteguy53081]

I posted pics above ^

Great. Too big to be ich or velvet and appears to be viral condition known as lymphocystis and often associated with poor water quality, diet or both
Also notice fish appears a little thin
Assure ammonia and nitrate are not elevated and what foods are you feeding it?
Should be getting fats and aminos using foods such as LRS fish frenzy, mysis shrimp, spirulina brine shrimp, Hikari marine cuisine, plankton and vitamin supplement such as selcon vitamins added to the diet

 

[vetteguy53081]

There is a product from polyp lab called medic.... treats white spot in a reef tank without affecting the corals. I dont have a QT and when i added a regal tang it got white spot, the foxface soon developed it. I treated the tank with medic.... the tang died but the foxface made a full recovery... the other inhabitants didnt get any ich. (Yellow tang, dwarf angels, clowns etc ) so i swear by this product but i know some people think it doesnt work. I have been free of ich for about 8 months now, there are about 30 happy disease free fish in my DT. No plans to add anything else as i get nervous about an outbreak of ich then hoping medic sorts it

It’s not parasitical and MEDIC is peroxide salt which is close to being a tonic and is hit and miss

 

[underthereef]

See, after feeding right now I don’t really see anything on him now. Is it that possible for sand to be sticking to him?? Or can ich/velvet spots or lympho spots change rapidly??

 

[underthereef]

At this point should I wait and see if more obvious symptoms present themselves or if any other fish contracts? I know that can be a dangerous game but this is really messing with my head. Lol.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update: the spots are DEFINITELY changing rapidly. I know it's not in my head. LOL. I will check on him one minute and don't see spots in one spot then the next moment it will be clear as day then gone again 30 minutes later. I got some pics of these new clear ones that showed up:

Spots that come and go, change location and change in numbers indicate marine ich in most cases. The trophonts also grow in size. It can be, as @vetteguy53081 said, sand though.

Jay

 

[Wilsonbem]

My experience of ich.... the spots would disappear every afternoon but return every morning... sometimes worse but after using medic there were a daily improvement intil they disappeared completely..... i was told that the daily disappearance is normal and the re emergence the next day are new free swimming ich that attach. I could never understand why many of the inhabitants showed nothing... i put this down to high resistance to the disease.

 

[Lavey29]

OP those type of fish are not known to be readily susceptible to ich like tangs are. It is probably more like what vetteguy assessed. Feed him high quality food and vitamins. Build his immune system and he will fight it off. I've had a few fish with similar.

 

[underthereef]

That is interesting. I never knew ich spots can be so variable and changing. I thought it was more like "fish got a particular spot(s) and those spots stay that way for 2-3 days then goes away, or more show up or fish gets better etc." I didn't know that particular spots themselves could possibly change so rapidly and also grow in size. That's good to know for future reference!

I'm just torn at this point between taking measures to make sure DT is still disease free; or continuing to observe and be sure whether it is ich/velvet or possibly nothing. He still looks spot free at the moment; but I wonder if this evening if another round of spots show up if that could be confirmation of an ich/velvet cycle occurring?

 

[Lavey29]

That is interesting. I never knew ich spots can be so variable and changing. I thought it was more like "fish got a particular spot(s) and those spots stay that way for 2-3 days then goes away, or more show up or fish gets better etc." I didn't know that particular spots themselves could possibly change so rapidly and also grow in size. That's good to know for future reference!

I'm just torn at this point between taking measures to make sure DT is still disease free; or continuing to observe and be sure whether it is ich/velvet or possibly nothing. He still looks spot free at the moment; but I wonder if this evening if another round of spots show up if that could be confirmation of an ich/velvet cycle occurring?

Unless you see fish dropping and dying in 24 hours it's not velvet most likely. Ich low chance possibility. When my CB got some spots I just used this and everything cleared up.