Ich or velvet on hawk fish?

[BranchingHammer]

Here is a link to the YouTube video:

 

[BranchingHammer]

They have API erythromycin at my LFS, only a large pack of maracyn 1. The API says it's only erythromycin, so it looks like I'll get that. Anyone have any other ideas as far as medication? I just put enough copper power into the tank to raise it to around 1.00ppm.
#reefsquad

Current symptoms:
Rapid breathing, around 180bpm
One gill doesn't open as far when the fish is breathing
Popeye
Lymphocystis? around the gills and on tail

 

[Stuartmercer]

True velvet is actually pretty rare - the primary symptom with that is rapid breathing. I don't actually see any clear ich spots either. The first image shows two irregular white spots on the dorsal that don't seem round enough to be ich. Could just be mucus, or the start of Lymphocystis. I do see some minor exophthalmos/popeye in the fish, not sure what is causing that.

That said, you need to treat new fish with copper anyway. I usually wait 72 hours after acquiring a fish and then start copper, so you are getting a bit of a late start - that can allow disease issues to get a head start on you.

Jay

Could flukes be associated with popeye?

 

[BranchingHammer]

Could flukes be associated with popeye?

I have no idea. I just picked up erythromycin for the popeye.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Could flukes be associated with popeye?

Neobenedenia causes cloudiness to the eyes, but not exophthalmia like that. There is something pushing outward on the eye from behind - often this is gas producing bacteria, or edema from an infection.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay,
I am going to treat the tank as a 16g tank, water volume wise. I will pick up the erythromycin today and possibly the API copper test kit. Do you know if the seachem copper multi-test is any good? I'll aim for 1.0ppm of copper (copper power) to start with, right? I just tried to feed him, and he refused food, but I'm thinking I should treat him with copper first? I'll try to get that video posted soon, as his breathing is still very fast. I also see buildup mostly around the gills which looks similar to lymphocystis. The popeye has progressed in the past few days as well. I will pick up the erythromycin now.

I've never used the seachem kit - the API kit is tough to read, but gets easier with practice. Multiple issues on one fish is always a big problem - they work together to weaken the fish....is it still feeding?

Jay

 

[BranchingHammer]

The fish has not eaten today (I tried to feed two times). The second feeding was soaked in garlic as well. I added copper earlier today to try to get to 1.00ppm, but I am going to test with the API to verify tonight. I am hoping that he will be around tomorrow to eat. Should I add the erythromycin tonight as well? I picked up 200mg packets from API which treat 10g of water each. Should I assume that my water volume is 16g for this treatment as well? ([12 x 12 x 30]/231 x 0.85 = 15.89 gallons. What level of copper should I try to bring the water to and how quickly? 2.0ppm?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The fish has not eaten today (I tried to feed two times). The second feeding was soaked in garlic as well. I added copper earlier today to try to get to 1.00ppm, but I am going to test with the API to verify tonight. I am hoping that he will be around tomorrow to eat. Should I add the erythromycin tonight as well? I picked up 200mg packets from API which treat 10g of water each. Should I assume that my water volume is 16g for this treatment as well? ([12 x 12 x 30]/231 x 0.85 = 15.89 gallons. What level of copper should I try to bring the water to and how quickly? 2.0ppm?

Go to 2.0 ppm copper power right away, in 3 partial doses to ease up to it. The lack of feeding is a bad sign. How is the damsel doing?
Jay

 

[BranchingHammer]

Damsel is fine. I will raise to 2.0ppm copper power. Should I add the erythromycin?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi Jay,
I have a seachem ammonia badge on the tank, so I have not been testing for Ammonia. My old test kit is expired, so I will pick up a new one tomorrow. I have been adding a maintenance dose of nitrifying bacteria daily to mitigate ammonia issues, however. I will order the copper Hanna checker tonight from BRS. I don’t know my tanks exact water volume, but could I start with a quarter or a half of the recommended dosage for my “20 gallon“ tank, and slowly raise it once I can accurately measure copper?

The fish is still eating well, but how do you classify ”breathing fast?” I can take a video tomorrow of him breathing if that works?

When getting that test kit- avaid API as it will likely give you a false reading. Ammonia badge not much better in reliability.

 

[BranchingHammer]

When getting that test kit- avaid API as it will likely give you a false reading. Ammonia badge not much better in reliability.

That was the only ammonia test kit they have, and I've been adding nitrifying bacteria daily. Thanks you for the advice though, it was just kind of an emergency. Do you have any advice as far as the erythromycin goes?

 

[vetteguy53081]

That was the only ammonia test kit they have, and I've been adding nitrifying bacteria daily. Thanks you for the advice though, it was just kind of an emergency. Do you have any advice as far as the erythromycin goes?

jay has a good hold on issue. Maracyn 1 which is ethromyacin works well on popeye. Additionally, Mardel Maracyn 1 is a specially compounded broad-spectrum antibiotic (erythromycin) which has been shown to be effective against a number of pathogenic bacteria associated with ornamental fish disease. It was developed for complete but gradual dissolution in water. It is primarily effective against gram-positive pathogenic organisms. Symptoms of clamped fins, swollen eyes, heavy or rapid breathing, patchy coloration, change in swimming behavior or corner-hiding can be signs of possible bacterial infection. I wuld use this not in the display tank but in a QT tank or bucket

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Damsel is fine. I will raise to 2.0ppm copper power. Should I add the erythromycin?

I would add it. Trouble is both copper and antibiotics take 3 days or so to work, and the fish is worsening pretty quickly....
Jay

 

[BranchingHammer]

I would add it. Trouble is both copper and antibiotics take 3 days or so to work, and the fish is worsening pretty quickly....
Jay

Ok, so assuming 16g water volume, and 200mg treats 10g of water, I should use 1.6 packets of antibiotics. I measured by weight and this was 2.67g. I am adding 2.65g of it to the water.

 

[BranchingHammer]

I got a closer look at his gills, @Jay Hemdal, and his gills are covered in white/yellow tufts. Bacterial? Fungal?

 

[BranchingHammer]

jay has a good hold on issue. Maracyn 1 which is ethromyacin works well on popeye. Additionally, Mardel Maracyn 1 is a specially compounded broad-spectrum antibiotic (erythromycin) which has been shown to be effective against a number of pathogenic bacteria associated with ornamental fish disease. It was developed for complete but gradual dissolution in water. It is primarily effective against gram-positive pathogenic organisms. Symptoms of clamped fins, swollen eyes, heavy or rapid breathing, patchy coloration, change in swimming behavior or corner-hiding can be signs of possible bacterial infection. I wuld use this not in the display tank but in a QT tank or bucket

I am treating him in my QT tank, and I just added the erythromycin.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I got a closer look at his gills, @Jay Hemdal, and his gills are covered in white/yellow tufts. Bacterial? Fungal?

Without a gill biopsy and looking at it under a microscope, you can't really say. External fungal diseases are very rare in marine fishes. I would say either bacteria, or Amyloodinium (velvet) although the latter is difficult to see without a microscope as well.

Jay

 

[BranchingHammer]

Without a gill biopsy and looking at it under a microscope, you can't really say. External fungal diseases are very rare in marine fishes. I would say either bacteria, or Amyloodinium (velvet) although the latter is difficult to see without a microscope as well.

Jay

Hi Jay,
Unfortunately, the fish passed away late last night. I found him, and he wasn’t breathing. I tried to glide him through the water and get water through his gills, but I had no luck. I have access to a microscope. Do you think it’s worth taking a biopsy of his gills?
Also, should I keep the copper level at 2.0ppm now for 30days? And should I continue the doses of erythromycin? (I did one dose out of 4). Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it.

 

[BranchingHammer]

@Jay Hemdal. I am continuing the erythromycin treatment on the damsel fish. Also, my hanna copper test kit arrives tomorrow, so I will finally be able to know where the copper level is at. How long should I keep it at 2.0ppm? 30 days? 14 days?
I ended up putting the hawk fish's body in my freezer to preserve it. Would a gill biopsy still be possible even with the frozen tissue?
Last question: I plan on treating other fish in that QT tank in the future. Could you advise me on how to properly sterilize all of the equipment in the QT to avoid future infections/outbreaks?
Thank you so much.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry to hear. Is the damsel still symptom-free? I think you can stop the erythromycin, but continue the copper for 30 days. No, once frozen, the tissue can't be used to identify parasites.

I only sterilize quarantine tanks if there was an uncontrolled disease issue - like in your case. If the fish had gone through the QT successfully, you would just leave it running for the next fish. So, in your case, the easiest thing to do would be to drain all of the water, rinse it out well with tap water, refill it with tap water, let it run for 24 hours, then let it air dry well.

jay