Ich, Velvet, something else?

[Tbrad877]

Hello, I have a 2 yer old system and one of my fish, a bluthroat trigger, appears to have contracted something. I have tried looking at photos of different diseases and it appears I may be dealing with Ich or Velvet so I wanted to post some photos for help. This is the first time I have dealt with disease in the tank as far as Im aware. I am in the process of setting up a quarantine tank but even if I could get the fish out and put into quarantine, would it be too late for this?

 

[Uncle99]

Not velvet.

Maybe ick but too blue. Have you got white pics, or better, a video. Behaviour changes?
How long have you seen that?

 

[Tbrad877]

Hopefully this helps. It almost looks like pieces of the white are hanging off. I havent noticed behavioral changes and he is still eating but I did notice that he is being bullied by one of my tangs. The tang keeps backing into him with his tail. Both of these fish have been in the tank the longest out of all fish, about 2 years, and I havent noticed this behavior before. I have a 120w UV on the tank that is plumbed into my return which runs at a gph that is supposed to be for disease mgmt, for what its worth. tank is about 220 gallons, and 260 inclusive of sump

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello, I have a 2 yer old system and one of my fish, a bluthroat trigger, appears to have contracted something. I have tried looking at photos of different diseases and it appears I may be dealing with Ich or Velvet so I wanted to post some photos for help. This is the first time I have dealt with disease in the tank as far as Im aware. I am in the process of setting up a quarantine tank but even if I could get the fish out and put into quarantine, would it be too late for this?

This is a classic case of ich and even mucus cones and you will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25 for a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored with a Hanna Brand copper test kit- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone. All other fish in with it should also be removed as they have also been exposed to the parasites and placed in quarantine tank.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off.
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store, a Rubbermaid type tub or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[Tbrad877]

Understood, I will need to pick up a few pieces of equipment for the quarantine. Im a little concerned with how feasible it will be to get all the fish out of the tank so question, is this a death sentence for most of the fish if I cannot get them all out or is this survivable with a strong immune sytem, balanced diet, vitamins, etc.

 

[Ziggy17]

Understood, I will need to pick up a few pieces of equipment for the quarantine. Im a little concerned with how feasible it will be to get all the fish out of the tank so question, is this a death sentence for most of the fish if I cannot get them all out or is this survivable with a strong immune sytem, balanced diet, vitamins, etc.

The other option is ich management and if you search the threads here, @Jay Hemdal and @Paul B have plenty of expert advice on how to do it.

 

[W31Olds]

Can you provide a little more information? Were there any recent additions including inverts? When did your fish start to display those white Mucus Cones? Are any others displaying the same? I'm not entirely convinced this is Ich, mainly because of the cloudy eyes. I see you have some inverts or you could run hyposalinity in Tank, but they cannot tolerate that treatment and would die. Check your UV to make sure the bulb is on and it's not too old.

 

[lyo333]

Triggers are generally okay with copper, but they can be sensitive to rapid increases. I’d recommend ramping up the concentration slowly over 3-4 days and monitoring their appetite closely. If they stop eating, TTM might be a safer alternative.
Treating fish directly in a fully established system is never reliable, as medications can be absorbed by rocks and media. TTM (Tank Transfer Method) is definitely the superior choice here. For mild cases, you don't even need to use harsh chemicals; the fish can recover very quickly just by breaking the parasite's life cycle through the transfers.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Understood, I will need to pick up a few pieces of equipment for the quarantine. Im a little concerned with how feasible it will be to get all the fish out of the tank so question, is this a death sentence for most of the fish if I cannot get them all out or is this survivable with a strong immune sytem, balanced diet, vitamins, etc.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

The fish looks good except the mucus plugs. There may or may not be ich involved there though.

When were the last animals added to the tank and what were they?

To tell if there is ich present or not: look for smaller spots, larger irregular spots are just mucus. Look for spots on the fins, ich does that, mucus spots are generally on the fish’s body. Watch for spots that come and go and change location, as well as starting up on new fish - more of a sign of ich.

 

[Tbrad877]

Thanks Guys, this morning it looks like many of the larger white spots that appeared to be hanging off the top of his body are no longer there. There are smaller spots that are still between his eyes, however but I dont currently see anything on his fins or tail fin. As far as I can tell none of my other fish have any white on them but I am keeping an eye out. I did recently add a orangeback fairy about 10 days back and a Foxface about 3 weeks ago. Both fish have not exibiting signs of white spot and have fit in well.

What exactly are Mucus Plugs? If this is part of what im dealing with, are these cause for concern or a sign of stress/diet deficiency / something else? Is it something that can spread to other fish as well and is there anything that I can do do help with this?

Thanks

 

[W31Olds]

Mucus Plugs form when some sort of wound or irritant is bothering the fish in that spot. One of the two fish you added most likely could have brought some parasite into your Tank. I assume they were not QT'd. With Ich, spots will often disappear as it completes it's lifecycle, only to reappear in greater numbers. You could also have Flukes. At this point all your Fish have been exposed. I would check the Disease forum for Ich and Flukes and also post a new video of your trigger.

 

[mcarroll]

Hopefully this helps. It almost looks like pieces of the white are hanging off. I havent noticed behavioral changes and he is still eating but I did notice that he is being bullied by one of my tangs. The tang keeps backing into him with his tail. Both of these fish have been in the tank the longest out of all fish, about 2 years, and I havent noticed this behavior before. I have a 120w UV on the tank that is plumbed into my return which runs at a gph that is supposed to be for disease mgmt, for what its worth. tank is about 220 gallons, and 260 inclusive of sump

This is happening because of the aggression – the trigger's immune system is toast (or close) if it is succumbing to something like this.

For what it's worth, this is an important distinction to the usual "new fish" situation with Ich (Crypto), where the swarmers play the part of aggressor too. They (the repeated assaults) are the reason for the fishes' immunity failure. In your case, there's only one "bad" fish to deal with, *and you can see him*. In the usual case, there are 1x10^8 swarmers, and *they are invisible* under normal viewing conditions.

All to say that your situation is more manageable than "the usual".

Fact: If you don't stop the aggression, it won't matter what else you do, this trigger will end up a victim.

(You can't do ich management AND permit a high stress situation as this degrades the immune system.)

So, no matter what, at least one of these fish has to come out.

If you determine an actual outbreak seems to be happening (like Jay described with active indicatinos of infection, esp. on fins)...

IMO, if you can get them both out, the rest of the fish might still be fine. I'd try to run a micron filter for at least a few days to help the UV filter out. Ruby Reef makes an in-tank treatment that could also be helpful. Decide which, if any, you want to put back in the display....perhaps let them both go to new homes post-recovery.

Getting the trigger treated specifically would be a good idea and it would give him a stress break (if you do the QT right) and give you the opportunity for better observation during treatment.

You *can* pull and treat all the fish, but you have apparently been successful up to now with managing things....and thankfully in your case, the reason for this situtation is not mysterious and can be addressed directly.

More "if's"...
*IF* the trigger is still eating well and *IF* you can get the offending Tang out, even he might recover in the tank, with the supports I mentioned. A good option to consider if you cannot catch him....Triggers can be very difficult – it's kinda their life purpose after all. ;)

But you also might end up being forced to more drastic means if you can't catch the offending Tang on the sly – eliminating that aggression is absolutely crucial. In that case (eg breaking down rockwork), you might still consider the treat-em-all route, if you're able to.