Ich?

[joro]

I have everyone in QT and I noticed this evening that the smaller clown has a single white spot above his pelvic fin. Him and the other larger clown have been in QT for around a week now with no issues; however, we did just add a Kole Tang on Tuesday which rounded out the batch for this quarantine session.

We haven't begun any treatments as of yet and was wondering 2 things:

1. Is this indeed ich?
2. Assuming it is, we were going to start Cupramine. My understanding is you don't want to go straight to the therapeutic does. Is there any concern with this spreading to the other inhabitants while I wait to get Cupramine up to the correct dosage?

Thanks,

 

[eliramos]

Bump

 

[TwelveL16]

I don't see any clear sign of ich, one white dot could be lymphocystis

 

[4FordFamily]

Yeah it's too hard to tell for sure, need more pics.

Avoid cupramine I've treated over 100 fish with it I'm not impressed with its ability to kill anything, even at 2x the therapeutic dose.

Coppersafe is my suggestion.

 

[melypr1985]

With it being just the one dot it's hard to tell. It could easily be a spec of sand. Treating for ick regardless is a good idea though. I agree with 4ford on the Coppersafe recommendation as well. Take a week to bring it up to therapeutic levels and make sure to test daily during that time and before and after every water change to be safe.

 

[Humblefish]

Are you talking about the white dot right by his first white stripe? 9 o'clock from where his eye is.

 

[joro]

Are you talking about the white dot right by his first white stripe? 9 o'clock from where his eye is.

Yes, that's the one!

 

[Humblefish]

Yes, that's the one!

It looks like it could be ich, but as mentioned above one dot is hardly definitive. An ich trophont will remain on a fish 3-7 days before dropping off; anything >7 days (in the same exact spot) must be something other than ich. Or if it grows noticeably in size, it is either Lympho or possibly an infection.

 

[joro]

So I noticed a spot on the Tang as well today, so do believe it's likely Ich. I now have both Cupramine and CopperSafe on-hand, so what's the best one to use and do I dose all on Day 1 or gradually increase concentration to therapeutic level over a few days?

 

[Reefahholic]

Gradually acclimate the fish to Copper over 2-3 days to 0.2 to 0.3 ppm.

The CP doesn't not require a ramp period.
I'd start at 40 mg per gallon. Or 400 mg per 10 gallon.

 

[Humblefish]

I now have both Cupramine and CopperSafe on-hand, so what's the best one to use and do I dose all on Day 1 or gradually increase concentration to therapeutic level over a few days?

Both should be gradually ramped up. I personally prefer Coppersafe over Cupramine, but what copper test kit do you have on hand?

 

[joro]

Both should be gradually ramped up. I personally prefer Coppersafe over Cupramine, but what copper test kit do you have on hand?

I actually bought both the SeaChem and API test kits so I had the correct one for whichever direction I went for treatment. I've "heard" that Cupramine is gentler on the fish but have also seen some threads - I believe with you adding input as well - seeming to imply that some new evidence contradicts that claim? The 3 fish in the QT at this point have been very healthy, active, and eating like champs and as this is my first time dosing this type of medication I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly :)

 

[Humblefish]

I actually bought both the SeaChem and API test kits so I had the correct one for whichever direction I went for treatment. I've "heard" that Cupramine is gentler on the fish but have also seen some threads - I believe with you adding input as well - seeming to imply that some new evidence contradicts that claim? The 3 fish in the QT at this point have been very healthy, active, and eating like champs and as this is my first time dosing this type of medication I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly :)

It's a matter of opinion & anecdotal experience really - some have had good success using Cupramine, whereas others prefer Coppersafe and other chelated copper products. I like the wide therapeutic range of Coppersafe (1.5 - 2.0 ppm). In my mind that's easier to test for, maintain and gives you more wiggle room than Cupramine's 0.35 - 0.5 range.

 

[joro]

It's a matter of opinion & anecdotal experience really - some have had good success using Cupramine, whereas others prefer Coppersafe and other chelated copper products. I like the wide therapeutic range of Coppersafe (1.5 - 2.0 ppm). In my mind that's easier to test for, maintain and gives you more wiggle room than Cupramine's 0.35 - 0.5 range.

How difficult is CopperSafe to remove after treatment? I like the notion of being able to throw in Cuprisorb and get everything out pretty quickly?

 

[Humblefish]

Cuprisorb will work just as well to remove Coppersafe as it does Cupramine. I like to use a polyfilter (after running Cuprisorb or carbon) just to be sure I got all the copper out: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...mpid=11cseYY&gclid=CNPT8Ifapc0CFQYuaQodI3YM8Q

A polyfilter will turn blue if copper is still present in the water.

 

[joro]

Cuprisorb will work just as well to remove Coppersafe as it does Cupramine. I like to use a polyfilter (after running Cuprisorb or carbon) just to be sure I got all the copper out: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...mpid=11cseYY&gclid=CNPT8Ifapc0CFQYuaQodI3YM8Q

A polyfilter will turn blue if copper is still present in the water.

Great info as always! One last question as a foll0w-up to my earlier one, with CopperSafe would I need to slowly raise the level or I can go straight up to the therapeutic dose?

 

[Humblefish]

Great info as always! One last question as a foll0w-up to my earlier one, with CopperSafe would I need to slowly raise the level or I can go straight up to the therapeutic dose?

You still need to raise it slowly - over a period of 4-5 days. This is true for all copper products and the sole exception to this rule is when faced with velvet. For velvet, you still want to add the copper gradually but get it up to the minimum therapeutic level within 24 hrs.

 

[joro]

You still need to raise it slowly - over a period of 4-5 days. This is true for all copper products and the sole exception to this rule is when faced with velvet. For velvet, you still want to add the copper gradually but get it up to the minimum therapeutic level within 24 hrs.

So the CopperSafe bottle recommends 5ml per 4 gallons as a treatment and I have a 20G QT. Would it be safe to say put 5ml per day, for 5 days to get up to therapeutic level? Also, I can't seem to pinpoint the concentration achieved with the 5ML per 4 Gallons - is it 1.5?

 

[Humblefish]

So the CopperSafe bottle recommends 5ml per 4 gallons as a treatment and I have a 20G QT. Would it be safe to say put 5ml per day, for 5 days to get up to therapeutic level? Also, I can't seem to pinpoint the concentration achieved with the 5ML per 4 Gallons - is it 1.5?

5ml (1 teaspoon) per day would be perfect for a 20 gal QT. That should land you somewhere between 1.5 - 2.0 ppm (the therapeutic range for Coppersafe). But I would double check that on Day 5 by using an API copper test kit.

 

[joro]

5ml (1 teaspoon) per day would be perfect for a 20 gal QT. That should land you somewhere between 1.5 - 2.0 ppm (the therapeutic range for Coppersafe). But I would double check that on Day 5 by using an API copper test kit.

So just as a sanity check - my water's been getting a little cloud and I'm going to do 10G (50% water change) today. I dosed the first 5ml last night but nothing as of yet today, so would this be correct -

• Remove 10G of water from QT
• Refill with 10G of freshly-mixed, temperature adjusted saltwater dosed at 2.5ml of CopperSafe (calculation below)
  • 10 Gallons / 4 Gallons = 2.5
  • 2.5 x 5ml = 12.5 ml
  • 12.5 ml x 0.2 = 2.5 ml
• Note: I'll add in the 10G in 2x 5-gallon buckets, so should I half the 2.5ml into 1.25ml per bucket?

Thanks,