Impossible to raise phosphate

[rfisher3]

Hey guys. I am really struggling. I cannot figure out how in the world to get my phosphates up from 0. My corals are starving to death.

I have 5 fish in my 100 gallon. It’s more than a year old. Barely any corals except some GSP. Everything else starved and is dead. Honestly I’m not sure if corals have ever actually thrived in my tank.

I have a refugium but it doesn’t seem to really matter if it’s on or off . Phos stays at 0. I run no filter floss, no skimmer no nothing.

I have an auto feeder that goes off 4 times a day for about 40 seconds, it’s a lot of food. I will also even throw in a cube for fun and nori. Still 0 phos.

At this point I have been dumping phosphate in. I use the aqua forest phosphate. It seems like no matter how much I add, it goes back to 0 by the next day.

I know my Hanna checker is accurate because it does show readings if i check shortly after dosing.

I have no clue what to do. It’s very discouraging because I’ve not been able to keep any corals alive ever. I always thought it was lighting, but I think it’s my nutrients.

Can someone help me?

 

[mmorrison55]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[JonoH]

What do you have growing in the fuge? If Chaeto is growing, its probably taking whatever phosphates are left. I would suggest shutting down the fuge for now.

Really need some more info/parameters, and pictures of your set up showing us the size of your tank, and your rock and lights to make a better assessment.

 

[rfisher3]

What do you have growing in the fuge? If Chaeto is growing, its probably taking whatever phosphates are left. I would suggest shutting down the fuge for now.

Really need some more info/parameters, and pictures of your set up showing us the size of your tank, and your rock and lights to make a better assessment.

I will add pictures if that’s helpful. But literally can’t be simpler. I have my lights on low par right now because I thought that was an issue lol.

I have no algae on rocks. I do have to clean my glass like 2 times a day. I have diatoms in the sand. But my rocks look really really good.

My cheato in the sump is pretty small and honestly might even be shrinking… I only run the lights for about 3-4 hours at night. But like I was saying, even with no refugium running, I still hit 0. I tested it.

Tank is Waterbox 110.4. I have almost no corals at this point so I know the corals aren’t “eating it”.

 

[JonoH]

I will add pictures if that’s helpful. But literally can’t be simpler. I have my lights on low par right now because I thought that was an issue lol.

I have no algae on rocks. I do have to clean my glass like 2 times a day. I have diatoms in the sand. But my rocks look really really good.

My cheato in the sump is pretty small and honestly might even be shrinking… I only run the lights for about 3-4 hours at night. But like I was saying, even with no refugium running, I still hit 0. I tested it.

Tank is Waterbox 110.4. I have almost no corals at this point so I know the corals aren’t “eating it”.

No Refugium would be completely removing the Chaeto, not just turning off the light. Light will induce growth, but its still going to absorb nutrients by being in the water.

I have a feeling that dialling your lights down may be having the opposite affect (again i'm only surmising). Have you tried broadcast feeding with something like reef roids (its known to jack up phosphates)?

 

[Bbio]

Following. I have the opposite problem. 6 month old 150 with 7 fish started with dry rock. I cannot maintain nitrates at all. Phosphates flop all over the place. Only a skimmer and socks I never change.

 

[rfisher3]

I will add pictures if that’s helpful. But literally can’t be simpler. I have my lights on low par right now because I thought that was an issue lol.

I have no algae on rocks. I do have to clean my glass like 2 times a day. I have diatoms in the sand. But my rocks look really really good.

My cheato in the sump is pretty small and honestly might even be shrinking… I only run the lights for about 3-4 hours at night. But like I was saying, even with no refugium running, I still hit 0. I tested it.

Tank is Waterbox 110.4. I have almost no corals at this point so I know the corals aren’t “eating it”.

Why would lower par tank produce less phos?

I have not tried broadcast feeding as I am already dosing phos anyways.

 

[JonoH]

Why would lower par tank produce less phos?

My assumption comes from the fact that your changing the regular cycle of the tank - it could also be why your corals are dying, as they potentially could be not getting enough light. It essentially directly affects the metabolic rate of your corals, which in turn affects the whole system.

But i'm no expert...and only guessing, just try to minimise big changes to your tank, and let things settle.

What sort of phosphate are you dosing? Might be worth trying a different brand? It could be that whatever is in your tank (like in your fuge) is just consuming whatever your dosing.

 

[rfisher3]

Why would lower par tank produce less phos?

My assumption comes from the fact that your changing the regular cycle of the tank - it could also be why your corals are dying, as they potentially could be not getting enough light. It essentially directly affects the metabolic rate of your corals, which in turn affects the whole system.

But i'm no expert...and only guessing, just try to minimise big changes to your tank, and let things settle.

What sort of phosphate are you dosing? Might be worth trying a different brand? It could be that whatever is in your tank (like in your fuge) is just consuming whatever your dosing.

I hear you about the light thing. I lowered my lights power months ago. I don’t change it often. I was under the impression That you can do more light if you have the available nutrients to feed.

I’ve been dosing aqua forest phosphate. I gotta really dose a ton if I want to see any leftover by the next day.

 

[JonoH]

From my understanding, the only aquaforest stuff i can see for sale is made for plants (ie. freshwater)?
I know they make phosphate minus which is for reducing phophates.

Might be just worth trying a different brand?

 

[fish_collector]

If your rocks are calcium carbonate based they are taking up the phosphate. My tank didn't settle down nutrient wise until about the 2 year mark, now it's stable and corals thrive.

If you use Loudwolf brand tri sodium phosphate you can follow Randy's formula and get it where you want it to be. Initially it sometimes takes a lot of product to start to see it in the water. It's mixed 20grams/liter I believe and then dosed based on tank volume and desired level. Search for it here and you'll find it.

And fwiw, frozen fish food is a much healthier way to feed fish, although more expensive.

 

[rfisher3]

From my understanding, the only aquaforest stuff i can see for sale is made for plants (ie. freshwater)?
I know they make phosphate minus which is for reducing phophates.

Might be just worth trying a different brand?

This is what I use

Po4 - Aquaforest

PO4: Effective preparation for raising phosphate levels in seawater.

aquaforest.eu

 

[rfisher3]

If your rocks are calcium carbonate based they are taking up the phosphate. My tank didn't settle down nutrient wise until about the 2 year mark, now it's stable and corals thrive.

If you use Loudwolf brand tri sodium phosphate you can follow Randy's formula and get it where you want it to be. Initially it sometimes takes a lot of product to start to see it in the water. It's mixed 20grams/liter I believe and then dosed based on tank volume and desired level. Search for it here and you'll find it.

And fwiw, frozen fish food is a much healthier way to feed fish, although more expensive.

So I can overload my system to make that 2 years go by quicker?

 

[billyocean]

If your rocks are calcium carbonate based they are taking up the phosphate. My tank didn't settle down nutrient wise until about the 2 year mark, now it's stable and corals thrive.

If you use Loudwolf brand tri sodium phosphate you can follow Randy's formula and get it where you want it to be. Initially it sometimes takes a lot of product to start to see it in the water. It's mixed 20grams/liter I believe and then dosed based on tank volume and desired level. Search for it here and you'll find it.

And fwiw, frozen fish food is a much healthier way to feed fish, although more expensive.

Yes. My rocks absorbed p04 for a year or two if I remember correctly. Then..one day it all started to equal out. Key is to stay on testing if adding to maintain.

 

[OnPointCorals]

Quadruple your fish load and problem will likely be solved. Turn your lights back up also.

 

[rfisher3]

Quadruple your fish load and problem will likely be solved. Turn your lights back up also.

So 20 fish???

2nd time I’ve heard increase lights. Why is that?

 

[fish_collector]

So I can overload my system to make that 2 years go by quicker?

There is nothing that makes a tank mature faster except time. But there’s more to a mature tank than stable phosphate. If 2 years is too long of a wait I’d suggest freshwater.

 

[X-37B]

Pic? What light are you running and at what level?

 

[X-37B]

There is nothing that makes a tank mature faster except time. But there’s more to a mature tank than stable phosphate. If 2 years is too long of a wait I’d suggest freshwater.

Or live rock and have a sytem up and running in a few weeks.

 

[CHSUB]

Neo had the same problem, but that was in the Matrix. In “reality” 1+1=2, so dose more po4…problem solved!