Interesting Stability Discovery with SPS

Sweet Reef Corals

SweetReefOH on IG
View Badges
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
2,403
Location
Fairborn
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
I don’t normally post on general “finds” or “discoveries” in this hobby but after spending a couple weeks with my new Kh Guardian and my Apex DOS I found some interesting anecdotal evidence regarding Alk consumption and I just wanted to throw it out here.

First, I just want to say I am an avid tester. I have far too much invested, not to know exactly where my system is on a daily basis. I dose BRS Soda Ash solution. I tested Alk with my Hanna checker every day and sometimes multiple times a day if needed. If something seemed off, I’d pull out my Red Sea OG drop test kit.

So when I first got my Apex DOS, I used my Hannah alk tester every hour for most of the day to get a baseline of when and how much I needed to dose. So I set my DOS schedule accordingly with 3 time blocks like this...
BF1E7247-1844-40FF-BC26-7C94F53C927B.jpeg


I blacked out how much two part I’m dosing because I didn’t want it to distract from the schedule. What I will say, is that I kept each block dosing the same total amount of two part. So when I got to 30mL/day two part Alk, it was 10mL, 10mL, 10mL in the time blocks.

That worked great for a couple years but I was looking for a tester that would keep me up to the hour on my Alk, as well as dose to make corrections. I wanted 24hr, precise stability for my SPS. A couple of months ago I purchased the Kh Guardian Pro to achieve this. After a couple of months of tweaking, I have finally established an awesome level of Alk stability on my system. Below you will see the Guardian read out of each Alk test time and Alk reading (all the way to the right) for the last few days.
7300439C-3699-4B33-93F3-17D276805E8C.png

My set alkalinity is 8.9. If the guardian tests the Alk below that, it will dose a separate Sodium Bi-Carbonate solution in an amount calculated in the guardian with respect to your system volume. You can also cap that amount, which I have done at 5mL, if you aren’t comfortable with the dosing. I started at 1mL and have slowly worked my way up to trust it to dose up to 5mL per test. This number is the next number to the left of the Alk result. Notice how amazingly stable the Alk has been over the last couple days.

So all of that brings me to what I expected and what I was surprised to learn. I really suspected that my guardian was going to find my DOS schedule perfect because I changed the time dosing length instead of the amount dosed in each block to keep things simpler down the road. So the overnight block is 9hrs 45minutes. Which is much longer than the other two blocks because you would expect consumption to be low overnight. So, if you’re like me, I know I expected to see the consumption go up significantly once my lights came completely on at 10:30am and go off at 6pm. Believe it or not, that is not how it panned out. Below is my actual DOS alk dosing schedule as of today, after all the tweeking....
5038FD67-5209-42D4-8F54-A6D20A514A80.png

The consumption actually increased roughly 21% AFTER the lights went out!! I don’t know about you guys, but I was really stunned to stumble upon this and just wanted to share! Comments welcomed and encouraged!
 

Epic Aquaculture

The artist formerly known as SawCJack00
View Badges
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
3,136
Reaction score
11,314
Location
Surprise, AZ
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I don’t normally post on general “finds” or “discoveries” in this hobby but after spending a couple weeks with my new Kh Guardian and my Apex DOS I found some interesting anecdotal evidence regarding Alk consumption and I just wanted to throw it out here.

First, I just want to say I am an avid tester. I have far too much invested, not to know exactly where my system is on a daily basis. I dose BRS Soda Ash solution. I tested Alk with my Hanna checker every day and sometimes multiple times a day if needed. If something seemed off, I’d pull out my Red Sea OG drop test kit.

So when I first got my Apex DOS, I used my Hannah alk tester every hour for most of the day to get a baseline of when and how much I needed to dose. So I set my DOS schedule accordingly with 3 time blocks like this...
BF1E7247-1844-40FF-BC26-7C94F53C927B.jpeg


I blacked out how much two part I’m dosing because I didn’t want it to distract from the schedule. What I will say, is that I kept each block dosing the same total amount of two part. So when I got to 30mL/day two part Alk, it was 10mL, 10mL, 10mL in the time blocks.

That worked great for a couple years but I was looking for a tester that would keep me up to the hour on my Alk, as well as dose to make corrections. I wanted 24hr, precise stability for my SPS. A couple of months ago I purchased the Kh Guardian Pro to achieve this. After a couple of months of tweaking, I have finally established an awesome level of Alk stability on my system. Below you will see the Guardian read out of each Alk test time and Alk reading (all the way to the right) for the last few days.
7300439C-3699-4B33-93F3-17D276805E8C.png

My set alkalinity is 8.9. If the guardian tests the Alk below that, it will dose a separate Sodium Bi-Carbonate solution in an amount calculated in the guardian with respect to your system volume. You can also cap that amount, which I have done at 5mL, if you aren’t comfortable with the dosing. I started at 1mL and have slowly worked my way up to trust it to dose up to 5mL per test. This number is the next number to the left of the Alk result. Notice how amazingly stable the Alk has been over the last couple days.

So all of that brings me to what I expected and what I was surprised to learn. I really suspected that my guardian was going to find my DOS schedule perfect because I changed the time dosing length instead of the amount dosed in each block to keep things simpler down the road. So the overnight block is 9hrs 45minutes. Which is much longer than the other two blocks because you would expect consumption to be low overnight. So, if you’re like me, I know I expected to see the consumption go up significantly once my lights came completely on at 10:30am and go off at 6pm. Believe it or not, that is not how it panned out. Below is my actual DOS alk dosing schedule as of today, after all the tweeking....
5038FD67-5209-42D4-8F54-A6D20A514A80.png

The consumption actually increased roughly 21% AFTER the lights went out!! I don’t know about you guys, but I was really stunned to stumble upon this and just wanted to share! Comments welcomed and encouraged!
Interesting. That is completely the opposite of my ALK consumption. It drops considerably at night on all of my systems. I use the Alkatronic on one system and GHL KH director on the others, and they both decrease the ALK input at night which keeps it stable. I use a DaStaCo CARX on the system with the Alkatronic, and it uses a light sensor to reduce the output once the lights turn off. The KH Director adjust in a similar way to the KH Guardian which, again keeps my ALK stable throughout the day and night. This works perfectly for me.
 
OP
OP
Sweet Reef Corals

Sweet Reef Corals

SweetReefOH on IG
View Badges
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
2,403
Location
Fairborn
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Interesting. That is completely the opposite of my ALK consumption. It drops considerably at night on all of my systems. I use the Alkatronic on one system and GHL KH director on the others, and they both decrease the ALK input at night which keeps it stable. I use a DaStaCo CARX on the system with the Alkatronic, and it uses a light sensor to reduce the output once the lights turn off. The KH Director adjust in a similar way to the KH Guardian which, again keeps my ALK stable throughout the day and night. This works perfectly for me.
Wow! There has to be a reason for our differences. Does it drop immediately after your lights shut off?
What uses a light sensor? The CaRx?
 

Bpb

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
4,516
Reaction score
6,348
Location
College Station
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Don’t corals with skeletons do their building at night typically? Makes sense alk would drop and consumption would go up in the dark
 

driftin

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
287
Reaction score
405
Location
Chicago
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Really interesting. I just recently switched to All-For-Reef and they (Tropic Marin) recommend only dosing during day. I'll have to starting testing at more times of day...
 

X-37B

Fight The Good Fight
View Badges
Joined
Sep 10, 2018
Messages
9,159
Reaction score
15,904
Location
The Outer Limits
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Very interesting observation.
I test alk every morning with a Hanna
I run a carx with manmade media.
I have tested mid day, just before lights out and in the middle of the night.
Alk only varys about .3 in a 24 hours period from my testing.
Only diference is I do not have continious testing over a 24 hr time frame.
As an example I can test at lights out alk is 7.3, morning its 7.1.
 
OP
OP
Sweet Reef Corals

Sweet Reef Corals

SweetReefOH on IG
View Badges
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
2,403
Location
Fairborn
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Very interesting observation.
I test alk every morning with a Hanna
I run a carx with manmade media.
I have tested mid day, just before lights out and in the middle of the night.
Alk only varys about .3 in a 24 hours period from my testing.
Only diference is I do not have continious testing over a 24 hr time frame.
As an example I can test at lights out alk is 7.3, morning its 7.1.
Yes, I would say my pre-guardian fluctuation in a 24hr period was probably no more than .5 too. I was just surprised about the lights out consumption after getting the guardian running good. But I’m trying to reach a tolerance of about .05. Just for my own personal satisfaction : )
 

dwest

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
4,503
Reaction score
9,463
Location
Northern KY
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
My alkalinity consumption continues for at least 2 hours after lights out. I learned that with hourly testing with my alkatronic. I was wondering about modifying my dosing to maintain “alkalinity“. Then I read this.
 
OP
OP
Sweet Reef Corals

Sweet Reef Corals

SweetReefOH on IG
View Badges
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
2,403
Location
Fairborn
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
My alkalinity consumption continues for at least 2 hours after lights out. I learned that with hourly testing with my alkatronic. I was wondering about modifying my dosing to maintain “alkalinity“. Then I read this.
That article is far above my SPS keeping skills : )
A pH test/probe and an Alk test will tell me all I need to know to get me where I want to be.
 

Epic Aquaculture

The artist formerly known as SawCJack00
View Badges
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
3,136
Reaction score
11,314
Location
Surprise, AZ
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Wow! There has to be a reason for our differences. Does it drop immediately after your lights shut off?
What uses a light sensor? The CaRx?
My lights ramp down for 2 hours and the drop starts right near the end of the light cycle. Yes the CARX has the light sensor.
 

Daniel@R2R

Living the Reef Life
View Badges
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
37,494
Reaction score
63,926
Location
Fontana, California
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Interesting. Following this discussion
 

JimWelsh

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
1,547
Reaction score
1,680
Location
Angwin, CA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
When I was developing the Trident prototype, and was testing alk literally every 10 minutes on my tank where I was dosing 2-part in small, even doses around the clock, I saw that alk consumption lagged behind the photoperiod by around 1-2 hours. It started shortly after "lights on", and continued at a pretty constant rate until a little after "lights out", after which it was almost non-existent until the next morning.
 
OP
OP
Sweet Reef Corals

Sweet Reef Corals

SweetReefOH on IG
View Badges
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
2,403
Location
Fairborn
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
When I was developing the Trident prototype, and was testing alk literally every 10 minutes on my tank where I was dosing 2-part in small, even doses around the clock, I saw that alk consumption lagged behind the photoperiod by around 1-2 hours. It started shortly after "lights on", and continued at a pretty constant rate until a little after "lights out", after which it was almost non-existent until the next morning.
That is similar to what I see, if I am correctly understanding your comment.

For clarity, what defines the “non-existent” statement there. Are you saying your consumption almost stopped after the post photo period consumption?
My experience is that there is still a steady rate of consumption overnight albeit not as much as during the photo period.
 

Epic Aquaculture

The artist formerly known as SawCJack00
View Badges
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
3,136
Reaction score
11,314
Location
Surprise, AZ
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That is similar to what I see, if I am correctly understanding your comment.

For clarity, what defines the “non-existent” statement there. Are you saying your consumption almost stopped after the post photo period consumption?
My experience is that there is still a steady rate of consumption overnight albeit not as much as during the photo period.
This is also what I find. the 2 hours is close to mine too, as lights ramp down for two hours until 9 pm and that's when I see the drop. There is still consumption overnight, but it is greatly decreased.
 

Daveobrien

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
172
Reaction score
266
Location
Portland, OR
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
We had a discussion on chasing stable alk, and one reference posted is particularly interesting. I offer this post from EMeyer. Nice graph, reference to external study, but interesting conclusion offering explanation.

 

Algae invading algae: Have you had unwanted algae in your good macroalgae?

  • I regularly have unwanted algae in my macroalgae.

    Votes: 43 35.2%
  • I occasionally have unwanted algae in my macroalgae.

    Votes: 26 21.3%
  • I rarely have unwanted algae in my macroalgae.

    Votes: 9 7.4%
  • I never have unwanted algae in my macroalgae.

    Votes: 9 7.4%
  • I don’t have macroalgae.

    Votes: 31 25.4%
  • Other.

    Votes: 4 3.3%
Back
Top