Inverts Keep Dying

[rantipole]

Hi all,

The short version of my problem is that my snails, urchins, and emerald crab have all died and despite many water changes any new snails I add to my tank die in about two to three weeks. My rock flower anemone has gotten pale and my zoas don't open. My three leather corals all look fine. The two clownfish are fine.

The long version of the problem is that in Jan or Feb, I was having an algae issue. I had been using regular GFO with no problems. However, I went to a different LFS and couldn't find it. Instead, I used SeaChem PhosGuard. Within a day of adding it to the filter, my Ricordea all shrank up and would eventually die. My snails started falling off things and eventually died. My urchin died.

I stopped using the PhosGuard and did a lot of water changes. I waited to add snails again for several months. I did stupidly put another urchin in the tank in April and it died after about three months. I tried snails again recently, and they all died after about three weeks. They seemed to die in a few waves right after water changes, which seems weird. At this point, I'm frustrated and heartbroken about killing so many animals. I'm also worried about the anemone and the zoas.

The tank is an AIO 13-gallon. I do water changes mostly weekly but sometimes every two weeks. I change about 2-3 gallons at a time. I run a skimmer.

I tested the tank last Monday (so five days ago) and today. I did a water change after the tests. All tests are brand new Salifert kits. The results are below (Monday/Today)

Salinity: 1.025/1.025
Nitrate: 10/5 (not sure this is right. I have trouble reading the color chart. Could it be this high and the leather corals and fish still be fine?)
Phosphate: 0/0
pH: 8.5/8.3
Alkalinity dKH: 10.7/10.2
Calcium: 420-430/420-430
Magnesium: 1230/1245ish

I'm not 100% sure it's the PhosGuard, although that seems the most likely culprit. I read something about it leaching aluminum into the water. I did also open and start using a new bucket of salt right around the same time, so I guess the salt could be contaminated. I use RedSea salt.

I hope someone can help me. Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
rant

 

[Billldg]

I would start by running some CupriSorb. Is their any possibility of copper getting into the DT? I would do a copper test to check.

Also, you had said that some of your corals died just after using PhosGaurd, it may have stripped the phosphate to quickly.

 

[JustinSmi86]

I’m thinking copper.... is it possible it got into the tank?

 

[Hemmdog]

Is there any algae for them to eat and coralline for the urchin? Any pics?

 

[W1ngz]

If water changes seem to trigger it, that's a good possibility. Where do you get your water from?
This sounds like a contaminant issue to me. Maybe metals of some sort, copper is a good possibility.

 

[rantipole]

I was worried about copper but I have no idea how copper would've gotten into the tank. Wouldn't copper kill the leathers too?

The only coral that died were the Ricordea, although the zoas don't look happy. I have a lot of algae, including coralline. I can get a pic of the tank tomorrow.

My water comes from a LFS. I've used their water since starting the tank 2 years ago without a problem. Can't rule that out as the problem but it seems unlikely.

My current plan is to test for copper and buy a new container of salt to use for my next water change. If that doesn't work, I'm considering replacing the sand and as much of the water as possible. I'd still have the big rock because most of my corals are attached to it. Is that a good idea?

Thanks again for the input!

Cheers,
rant

 

[W1ngz]

There's plenty of other ways still available to narrow down the problem before blindly making massive changes to the system. I'd try and collect more information so you know more clearly what you're fighting.

If you have any of the old water still on hand (assuming it's RODI, no salt yet) I would test it for TDS as an indicator of potential problems, as well as copper. I'd also try and find some poly filter chemical pads and put one in the tank and run new mixed salt water through that to see if there's a colour change. That will be an indicator of other contaminants than copper, and will also help in the removal.

 

[ScottR]

Are your leathers sliming at all? Like some mucous coming off of them? Leathers can release toxins into the water. While this is harmful to some corals, not sure how it affects inverts.

 

[Retro Reefer]

Personally I would not trust any LFS to make my water, having a source of 100% pure water is critical to long term success.. RO / DI system would be a good addition or with a tank that small you could even just use bottled distilled water. IMO phosguard is not your problem, may effect corals if you strip phosphates but not inverts.

 

[Scurvy]

My thoughts echo Retro Reefer. I would 100% start with your source water. Test new water from the LFS before every use and invest in an RODI unit when you are able. Phosguard is an aluminum based phosphate/silicate removal media. Stripping PO4 too quickly would/could kill corals but unlikely to affect inverts. Ive used it for years without issue.

Are you sure you have algae and not dinoflagellates? Dino can be toxic.

 

[BeejReef]

Echo others on water source. 99% yours is fine, but you can't take confident action without some certainty about the most basic variable. Was thinking along with #scurvy as well. Phosphate could diminish corals, but running at 0 also invites dinos. They can be toxic. Also, if they're your major "algea," your CUC could be strarving too.

 

[rantipole]

Pics from yesterday below.

I understand why the water could be a problem, but I get it from a well-regarded reef store. I've also not had problems using their water for almost 2 years before the problems began. I'll definitely test that water going forward, so thank you for making that suggestion.

Looking at the algae now, I know I have bubble algae, hair algae, and diatoms. Not sure about the dinos.

Thanks again!

Cheers,
rant

 

[rantipole]

I tested for copper, and there is none in the tank. So that's good, but it leaves me again wondering what the problem is. I still suspect the PhosGuard because everything really did start to go south after using that.

I went through the nuisance algae thread carefully, and I do think I've got dinos. I'm cutting my light back to 4 hours/day and using GFO again. I did a water change, using a fresh bucket of salt.

If anyone has any other ideas and suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Any guidance of when I can try to add some snails/CUC again?

Cheers,
rant

 

[artieg1]

Consider Triton water testing kit, to confirm you've got nothing funky going on with metals of some kind. I had a similar issue a year ago, and it took better husbandry on my part to ensure parameters were stable across the board. Doesn't look like you have any predators that could be bothering them.