Is a proper canister filter really more work?

[Sleepingtiger]

Ok, so basically the box prevents all of the water from draining out of the tank into the sump/floor.

and to adjust water height in the tank

 

[keithw283]

I ran a canister for 5 months before i went to a sump. I only cleaned it every 2-3 weeks. Always had gfo in it and a bag of chemi pure. My levels were pretty solid. Now that i have a sump the only advantage i really see is having a refugium, more water volume and no crap in the display (why i wanted a sump). Maybe I'm wrong on that but my tank runs about the same in the last month with a sump. Maybe ill see the advantages in the long term.

I will say a sump is a royal pain in the butt to tune correctly. To get the water volume to always stay where you want it in the display. But I'm still learning here so i most likely don't know what I'm doing.

IMO a canister is just easier for the rookie as long as they have the right expectations.

All you have to do is adjust the valves on your drain pipe to match the flow of the return. Or adjust the flow of the return to match the drain pipe.

 

[doubleshot00]

All you have to do is adjust the valves on your drain pipe to match the flow of the return. Or adjust the flow of the return to match the drain pipe.

I get that but it seems to be changing every month. Never perfect.

 

[keithw283]

I get that but it seems to be changing every month. Never perfect.

Mine is tuned in perfectly with a ball valve. A gate valve would be ideal but a ball valve gets it done.

 

[Sleepingtiger]

Mine is tuned in perfectly with a ball valve. A gate valve would be ideal but a ball valve gets it done.

I got a red sea reefer with that weird looking gate valve and a Vectra L2. dang thing changes every other day. It eithers gurgle because lack of flow or a hearing a slight trickle as it drains into the backup drain. PITA

Not sure if it's the Vectra or the gate valve. The Vectra was calibrated.

 

[doubleshot00]

Mine is tuned in perfectly with a ball valve. A gate valve would be ideal but a ball valve gets it done.

Mines i guess "good enough"; just annoying.

 

[Treefer32]

I would assess what you're using the cannister filter for? I have a Nu-clear cannister filter with a 25 micron pleated cartridge from Marine and reef. They are stackable and I should probably have a 100 micron prefilter and then the 25 micron polisher. However, I opted for just the 25 micron due to price. My goal was purely to polish the water. I didn't run filter socks at the time... Now 2 years later... I run a red sea roller mat. (I'm going through a roll of paper ever 2 weeks right now...) I have 2 25 micron filters that one I spray off with a garden hose and soak in bleach for 3 weeks while the other one is on the tank polishing the water. Even with the roller mat and the 25 micron filter cartridge. I'm still spending around a half hour cleaning the old filter cartridge and post rinsing the cleaned cartridge, then soaking the old cartridge in RODI and Prime to rinse off any left over bleach. Then placing the cartridge back in the cannister filter.

At 30 minutes every 3 weeks = nearly 9 hours a year I spend cleaning filter cartridges. That doesn't include the 10 minutes I spend every 2 weeks changing out the roller mat paper.

The downside of cannister filters is that if left unchecked a) they plug up with debris they're filtering out, so waterflow through them decreases, B) It's an area to build up detritus in salt water tanks and this becomes a nitrate factory. Instead of removing nitrates, the organics that build up over 2-3 weeks then break down into nitrates and fill your display with nitrates.

Imagine leaving a filter sock for 3 weeks? (Granted water would start overflowing the sock) but, it would generate all kinds of badness. If that happens in 3 days in a sock. Imagine 3 weeks in a filter? That said, I like my water being polished, so my nitrates are going to stay around 20 most of the time. . . If the reefmat catches up and I don't need to polish my water as much I may change out the filter cartridge to some type of carbon media.

 

[GARRIGA]

I would assess what you're using the cannister filter for? I have a Nu-clear cannister filter with a 25 micron pleated cartridge from Marine and reef. They are stackable and I should probably have a 100 micron prefilter and then the 25 micron polisher. However, I opted for just the 25 micron due to price. My goal was purely to polish the water. I didn't run filter socks at the time... Now 2 years later... I run a red sea roller mat. (I'm going through a roll of paper ever 2 weeks right now...) I have 2 25 micron filters that one I spray off with a garden hose and soak in bleach for 3 weeks while the other one is on the tank polishing the water. Even with the roller mat and the 25 micron filter cartridge. I'm still spending around a half hour cleaning the old filter cartridge and post rinsing the cleaned cartridge, then soaking the old cartridge in RODI and Prime to rinse off any left over bleach. Then placing the cartridge back in the cannister filter.

At 30 minutes every 3 weeks = nearly 9 hours a year I spend cleaning filter cartridges. That doesn't include the 10 minutes I spend every 2 weeks changing out the roller mat paper.

The downside of cannister filters is that if left unchecked a) they plug up with debris they're filtering out, so waterflow through them decreases, B) It's an area to build up detritus in salt water tanks and this becomes a nitrate factory. Instead of removing nitrates, the organics that build up over 2-3 weeks then break down into nitrates and fill your display with nitrates.

Imagine leaving a filter sock for 3 weeks? (Granted water would start overflowing the sock) but, it would generate all kinds of badness. If that happens in 3 days in a sock. Imagine 3 weeks in a filter? That said, I like my water being polished, so my nitrates are going to stay around 20 most of the time. . . If the reefmat catches up and I don't need to polish my water as much I may change out the filter cartridge to some type of carbon media.

Pr-filtering with a 100 micron the approach I'd take. Same approach you took with NuClear I considered in the 80s. Although don't recall if those were stack-able and don't recall seeing a 100 micron option. Not that I understood microns then but grasped the need to polish the water.

As for nitrates, I'm resolving that now with carbon dosing. I overfeed to solve bottoming it out since it's a small experimental tank with manual dosing. My pipette isn't exact.

Maintenance really based on allowing detritus to breakdown naturally before it clogs and why stepping down in size until final polisher will prolong maintenance. With carbon dosing and phosphates remedies today the aftermath of capturing detritus shouldn't be an issue. WCs can be relegated to managing other contaminants that perhaps can't be filtered out. Possibly managed with ICP tests as to when that needs to be administered.

BTW, Not sure one needs to bleach these pleated filters. Goal could be just to relieve that which is causing clogs and then occasionally bleach them, if needed. Life doesn't need to live in a sterile aquarium. The ocean isn't.

 

[Fastpitch]

I have done both. I started in the hobby with an FX4. Now I run a sump and would never go back.

However the best thing about the canister is that it got me in the hobby. That would never have happened if I did not have that option. Canister filters have a low cost of entry and provide a solid foundation to learn about the hobby. When I started out I could not invest all the $$$'s upfront that can be associated with reef keeping. In my case the canister got me started and I have since then been adding on capabilities over time. It is true that ramping up the investment can cost more in the end but there is a good chance that other course corrections in approach will have that same result anyway.

My experience was that the canister was a pain to clean, lacks flexibility and was ultimately limiting. But the beauty of the canister is that you can freely move on from there when you are ready.

 

[simplicity]

Waterbox replied and I would have to pay return shipping and a 25% restocking fee on the tank. They said the glass could be drilled, however.

that said, I didn’t think that I would have to drill more than just the overflow, but also the return pipe(s) to the tank. I’m not sure how that would work with keeping the “clean” look on a clear background. If I do the overflow on the side of the tank I have less than 18” and I want all my plumbing on one side. It will be a little cramped and I’ll still be able to see all the piping on one side. Ugh. This has turned into a PITA. Should have ordered the right tank and stand from the beginning, but then I wouldn’t have ordered it since it’s $1000 more than the freshwater version.

Gonna have to think about this. I may just end up going back to freshwater and save saltwater for when I’m rich since I can’t seem to make this work how I want it without a ton of time and investment. If I or my local fish store screw up anything on the install, then I’m F’ed.

Im kind of ticked too that Innovative marine are/were selling their 150 gallon internal overflow aquarium and stand for just a little more than what I paid for the 72 gallon freshwater version from Waterbox.

The restocking fee seems a little steep. Should have waited now I’m just ticked off.

 

[GARRIGA]

Waterbox replied and I would have to pay return shipping and a 25% restocking fee on the tank. They said the glass could be drilled, however.

that said, I didn’t think that I would have to drill more than just the overflow, but also the return pipe(s) to the tank. I’m not sure how that would work with keeping the “clean” look on a clear background. If I do the overflow on the side of the tank I have less than 18” and I want all my plumbing on one side. It will be a little cramped and I’ll still be able to see all the piping on one side. Ugh. This has turned into a PITA. Should have ordered the right tank and stand from the beginning, but then I wouldn’t have ordered it since it’s $1000 more than the freshwater version.

Gonna have to think about this. I may just end up going back to freshwater and save saltwater for when I’m rich since I can’t seem to make this work how I want it without a ton of time and investment. If I or my local fish store screw up anything on the install, then I’m F’ed.

Im kind of ticked too that Innovative marine are/were selling their 150 gallon internal overflow aquarium and stand for just a little more than what I paid for the 72 gallon freshwater version from Waterbox.

The restocking fee seems a little steep. Should have waited now I’m just ticked off.

Keeping saltwater fish not much different than fresh. One doesn't need a reef tank to keep salt. KISS

As for returning the tank. Sell it used. Likely get better than cost of shipping and restocking fee.

 

[adittam]

Another vote for selling it used. The next lesson here is to look used instead of new if you're on a budget. Retail prices on waterboxes and red sea reefers are literally insane.

 

[simplicity]

Freshwater it is. Canister had me hoping that I’d be able to do this, but this is way too much work and money. I don’t want to drill or glue or anything. I just wanted plug and play and have it look pristine. Can’t happen so I’m not gonna do it. Will revisit this in some years maybe, when I got some decent money. Nobody in my area is going to buy an aquarium. Craigslist is dead and marketplace is not much better.

 

[Sleepingtiger]

sorry to hear. You can get a canister to work. just takes a bit more work. I think a softy tank will definitely work.

 

[simplicity]

Thank you - and thanks to everyone who chimed in. All information was absorbed (hopefully) and appreciated. I will keep everything I learned in mind going forward.

 

[adittam]

Freshwater it is. Canister had me hoping that I’d be able to do this, but this is way too much work and money. I don’t want to drill or glue or anything. I just wanted plug and play and have it look pristine. Can’t happen so I’m not gonna do it. Will revisit this in some years maybe, when I got some decent money. Nobody in my area is going to buy an aquarium. Craigslist is dead and marketplace is not much better.

Well, that sucks. FWIW, nobody here said a canister filter was impossible, just that it wasn't going to be as versatile or clean looking as a sump.

My buddy and I were just texting each other the other day, and the gist was, "I can't believe how much cooler saltwater is than freshwater."

 

[keithw283]

Mines i guess "good enough"; just annoying.

Do you have a gate valve or a ball valve?

 

[doubleshot00]

Do you have a gate valve or a ball valve?

Gate

 

[xCry0x]

Thank you - and thanks to everyone who chimed in. All information was absorbed (hopefully) and appreciated. I will keep everything I learned in mind going forward.

Hate to see someone walk away from the hobby before getting started.

If you have the tank, and the desire to do salt water, just do a fish only tank to get started.

My office 10+ years ago had a giant 600g fish only tank that was more or less filtered with an under sized canister filter.

The hobby gets expensive when you move into the reef aspect since that is where you need to amp up your filtration and lighting.

Then you could just slap a lifereef overflow on whenever you are ready, build out a sump -- and you have a tank full of seasoned live rock/sand to work with.

You can also keep low difficulty corals like leathers/softies in a very dirty tank.

 

[Sink_or_Swim]

YEAH one was a Tideline trigger sump and one was a Bashsea sump that Did NOT have the baffles glued in tightly, I was able to catch both leaks only after a few gallons were released into my carpet. Thanks to Premium aquatics they refunded my money for the Bashsea. i had to fight months with the vendor of tideline before i recouped my money. Premium aquatics TOP NOTCH IMO.

LOVE Premium Aquatics.