Is DIY tap water filter sufficient because i dont have R/O

[Bpb]

If you check now even 1st page, so many people with RO water and 0 TDS water talking about GHA and inital tank algae phases.
I personally have 0 algae issues so far and no initial algae problems (Except a bit of diatoms my snails took care of in 2 days)
I think my trick was the DIY Algae scrubber.

not arguing with you, but your algae scrubber is your hair algae. You’ve created a more habitable environment via the scrubber, keeping it out of the display. That’s the idea though.

I have long maintained algae has nothing to do with water quality and everything to do with presence of herbivores and/or scrubbers/refugium (if they’re working). I e allowed my phosphates and nitrates up well over 50 ppm and 0.4 ppm respectively. No refugium, no scrubber. Without a spec of algae. The power of an efficient herbivore crew will do more for display algae elimination than anything will in my experience.

my use of RODI is not for cleanliness, but to have a manageable DKH as well as reduce the level of impurities and metals in as simple and easy a way as possible.

 

[Key-tie]

not arguing with you, but your algae scrubber is your hair algae. You’ve created a more habitable environment via the scrubber, keeping it out of the display. That’s the idea though.

I have long maintained algae has nothing to do with water quality and everything to do with presence of herbivores and/or scrubbers/refugium (if they’re working). I e allowed my phosphates and nitrates up well over 50 ppm and 0.4 ppm respectively. No refugium, no scrubber. Without a spec of algae. The power of an efficient herbivore crew will do more for display algae elimination than anything will in my experience.

my use of RODI is not for cleanliness, but to have a manageable DKH as well as reduce the level of impurities and metals in as simple and easy a way as possible.

Well said...

 

[SDK]

If you have a 4 - 6 chamber unit for RO...thats a whole lot of poly filter and carbon.

This is absolutely incorrect. As is your statement that using Lehigh County tap water is more like natural seawater than RODI and a quality salt mix.

I spend $20 per year on my RODI unit for a new filter kit. You will spend more on poly filter pads, loose carbon and electricity and get less return/lower quality water for your money.

Feel free to do what you want. At this point I am primarily posting to keep the facts straight for others who may read this thread.

 

[Key-tie]

This is absolutely incorrect. As is your statement that using Lehigh County tap water is more like natural seawater than RODI and a quality salt mix.

I spend $20 per year on my RODI unit for a new filter kit. You will spend more on poly filter pads, loose carbon and electricity and get less return/lower quality water for your money.

Feel free to do what you want. At this point I am primarily posting to keep the facts straight for others who may read this thread.

I never once said Lehigh County tap water is more like natural sea water then reverse osmosis anywhere in my thread at any time... LOL but, okay

 

[Lasse]

@Lasse, the fact remains, in your current tank, when asked if you’d go back to using tap, you say no. So you still clearly must see the use of an RODI unit as an effective hedge against unknown variables that you do not want introduced to your tank, since you’re currently using one. Whether it’s pipe work construction (in your case) or other changing environmental factors that lead to variability in one’s water supply, you cannot deny that use of an RODI unit is a good practice for minimizing risk of source water contaminants, especially for hobbyists who may not know enough to familiarize themselves with the content and characteristics of their own source water.

I do not use RO/DI - I only use RO. I have a sediment filter, carbon filter and RO membran - not any cation or anion resins. I´m not against the use of either RO, DI or the combination RO/DI if needed - but I prefer not to use it if there is no need for it.

In my case when I know that:
1) - they are going to do pipe works, probably put in new copper.
2) I know of earlier experiences that new copper pipes will release a lot of CU ions before it will be a protection layer inside the pipes
would it be rather idiotic not to handle this new situation. However - after this discussion - I probably skip the RO and use only a resin that catch cations and ad ascorbic acid to my top off tanks. PO4 in my tap water is below 0.005 ppm, Cu between 0.1 - 0.4 micro gram (0.0001-0.0004 ppm) (2017) Total chlorine out in the system max 0.31 mg/l (ppm)

At present situation - my long time between June 2016 and March 2018 with no up build of unwanted metals (according to ICP tests) in spite of use of tap water show that present tap water can be used. I have run the tank with tap water (Jun 2016 - march 2018) with RO (april 2018 to Nov 2019) maybe it is time to run the tank only using a cation resin for next 1.5 years.

Looking at the figures from Allentown - your Copper is nearly 100 times higher than mine (0.24 ppm = 240 micro gram/l - mine between 0.1-0.4 micro gram/l (ppb) and the total chlorine is between 0.02 - 1.41 ppm (mine max 0.31 ppm).

I would suggest that you change the content of one of your HOB filter to use a resin catching cations instead of active carbon. The second HOB filter use carbon or change to a resin catching anions. If so - use ascorbic acid for the chlorine/chloramines.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Key-tie]

This is absolutely incorrect. As is your statement that using Lehigh County tap water is more like natural seawater than RODI and a quality salt mix.

I spend $20 per year on my RODI unit for a new filter kit. You will spend more on poly filter pads, loose carbon and electricity and get less return/lower quality water for your money.

Feel free to do what you want. At this point I am primarily posting to keep the facts straight for others who may read this thread.

If that is what you took from me saying that I prefer to retain the natural qualities of fresh water instead of stripping it bare with reverse osmosis... Then so be it

 

[Lasse]

not arguing with you, but your algae scrubber is your hair algae. You’ve created a more habitable environment via the scrubber, keeping it out of the display. That’s the idea though.

I have long maintained algae has nothing to do with water quality and everything to do with presence of herbivores and/or scrubbers/refugium (if they’re working). I e allowed my phosphates and nitrates up well over 50 ppm and 0.4 ppm respectively. No refugium, no scrubber. Without a spec of algae. The power of an efficient herbivore crew will do more for display algae elimination than anything will in my experience.

my use of RODI is not for cleanliness, but to have a manageable DKH as well as reduce the level of impurities and metals in as simple and easy a way as possible.

My bold
Now we are talking. I agree with you that if you have high levels of calcium and magnesium - a RO filter is a good tool - but - it is always a but - your membrane will be clogged very fast if it is too high. In our 50 000 l a day RO unit running with around 20 ppm Ca we had a zeolite filter - back washed with NaCl once a night. If we did not run this water softener - we had to change the membrane much more often than once a year. For the book - a cation resin will take Ca ions too but if it is high levels - a water softener based on zeolite is best. I agree that this is good if you use the water to mix with a salt mix but i normally use low calcium salt mixes if I have high Ca in my tap water. But as a top off - if the only problem is Ca and Mg - I would prefer that and save chemicals for my Balling. But once again - knowing your incoming water is knowing how to treat it.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Key-tie]

I do not use RO/DI - I only use RO. I have a sediment filter, carbon filter and RO membran - not any cation or anion resins. I´m not against the use of either RO, DI or the combination RO/DI if needed - but I prefer not to use it if there is no need for it.

In my case when I know that:
1) - they are going to do pipe works, probably put in new copper.
2) I know of earlier experiences that new copper pipes will release a lot of CU ions before it will be a protection layer inside the pipes
would it be rather idiotic not to handle this new situation. However - after this discussion - I probably skip the RO and use only a resin that catch cations and ad ascorbic acid to my top off tanks. PO4 in my tap water is below 0.005 ppm, Cu between 0.1 - 0.4 micro gram (0.0001-0.0004 ppm) (2017) Total chlorine out in the system max 0.31 mg/l (ppm)

At present situation - my long time between June 2016 and March 2018 with no up build of unwanted metals (according to ICP tests) in spite of use of tap water show that present tap water can be used. I have run the tank with tap water (Jun 2016 - march 2018) with RO (april 2018 to Nov 2019) maybe it is time to run the tank only using a cation resin for next 1.5 years.

Looking at the figures from Allentown - your Copper is nearly 100 times higher than mine (0.24 ppm = 240 micro gram/l - mine between 0.1-0.4 micro gram/l (ppb) and the total chlorine is between 0.02 - 1.41 ppm (mine max 0.31 ppm).

I would suggest that you change the content of one of your HOB filter to use a resin catching cations instead of active carbon. The second HOB filter use carbon or change to a resin catching anions. If so - use ascorbic acid for the chlorine/chloramines.

Sincerely Lasse

Thank you for that information.
Sounds like a good plan.

 

[Bpb]

My bold
Now we are talking. I agree with you that if you have high levels of calcium and magnesium - a RO filter is a good tool - but - it is always a but - your membrane will be clogged very fast if it is too high. In our 50 000 l a day RO unit running with around 20 ppm Ca we had a zeolite filter - back washed with NaCl once a night. If we did not run this water softener - we had to change the membrane much more often than once a year. For the book - a cation resin will take Ca ions too but if it is high levels - a water softener based on zeolite is best. I agree that this is good if you use the water to mix with a salt mix but i normally use low calcium salt mixes if I have high Ca in my tap water. But as a top off - if the only problem is Ca and Mg - I would prefer that and save chemicals for my Balling. But once again - knowing your incoming water is knowing how to treat it.

Sincerely Lasse

my tap water actually has a negligible amount of Ca and Mg. Less than 5 mg/L.

 

[Bpb]

https://www.cstx.gov/common/pages/DisplayFile.aspx?itemId=15868700

Just for fun here’s mine

 

[Key-tie]

https://www.cstx.gov/common/pages/DisplayFile.aspx?itemId=15868700

Just for fun here’s mine

You get some major range swings in detected levels, for sure...

 

[Key-tie]

Www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

I came across this article that seems to be a smart way to go about diagnosing how to correct some tank problems.
I'm putting it up for whoever is interested...
I'll double check that i put the link correctly after it posts.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Chlorine and chloramines won’t show on TDS meter

Mike

Again, its where you live.

Chloramine is not used in NY and Chlorine is easily removed by every basic conditioner - drop per 5G is fine.

 

[LoveReefer]

Again, its where you live.

Chloramine is not used in NY and Chlorine is easily removed by every basic conditioner - drop per 5G is fine.

I never disputed what you are mentioning. Lasse asked if chlorine or choramines will read on a TDS meter. They will not.

 

[BZOFIQ]

We strip the water to 0.00 TDS to ensure we are working with purified water. RO = Reverse Osmosis, some municipalities use this to purify drinking water, it alone will bring you near 0.00 TDS, but not for long, mine operates at install at around 0.02 TDS, but after a month or so, averages at 0.08 with an inbound 153 TDS.
Ionization brings the water down to 0.00 which means zero ions, which is what is preferred to use for top off and saltwater mixing. Why= control.

You are strictly talking about YOUR tap.

As someone already mentioned, it all depends on THEIR tap.

Your water tests at 150 TDS, my water in Brooklyn tested at ~ 40....and for someone to say that the 40 PPM could be pure copper is Bologna, and its not the Katz Deli type.

Is your plumbing copper? Better hope not. Do you know what filtration your city uses. Have you read their annual report? I have fairly clean water with TDS @ 153 and would not even consider your method. Some filtration doesn't remove drugs flushed down toilets, arsenic, sodium fluoride, etc.

NYC water gets tested in hundreds of points throughout the city & water quality reports are readily available at DEP and the water comes from a protected reservoirs upstate. The stuff that goes down the toilet doesn't circle back into the water - sorry to hear it does in your area.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I have the same opinion as the OP - RO is not always needed - it depends on the quality of the tap water.

It's that simple people, all said in one sentence.

 

[BZOFIQ]

not arguing with you, but your algae scrubber is your hair algae. You’ve created a more habitable environment via the scrubber, keeping it out of the display. That’s the idea though.

I have long maintained algae has nothing to do with water quality and everything to do with presence of herbivores and/or scrubbers/refugium (if they’re working). I e allowed my phosphates and nitrates up well over 50 ppm and 0.4 ppm respectively. No refugium, no scrubber. Without a spec of algae. The power of an efficient herbivore crew will do more for display algae elimination than anything will in my experience.

my use of RODI is not for cleanliness, but to have a manageable DKH as well as reduce the level of impurities and metals in as simple and easy a way as possible.

Civil discussion at last. High five!

 

[Lasse]

Again, its where you live.

Chloramine is not used in NY and Chlorine is easily removed by every basic conditioner - drop per 5G is fine.

I never disputed what you are mentioning. Lasse asked if chlorine or choramines will read on a TDS meter. They will not.

This is important - chloramine is not possible to read with help of TDS in any water. You can have 100 ppm chloramine in your water - still reading 0 ppm TDS. A TDS meter is a simple conductive meter and will only report ion activity - chloramine is not an ion. RO membran will not either take away all chloramines - some will pass by. If your active carbon is saturated - some of it will go through all 5 stages of RO/DI too - even if your TDS meter says zero ppm TDS (TDS stand for total dissolved solids - in this case a dissolved solid ( by the way - how anything solid could be dissolved - its high above my pay check) is equal with ions

Sorry LoveReefer - my question was a type of sarcastic question - I did know that TDS will not measure chloramine and I´m very glad that at least one other had think in the same way and you are totally right.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[HawaiianReef]

Low tech is still a thriving thing. But even at low tech, aquarists still test their tanks for a lot of elements. Just knowing what's in the water column is a huge leap forward. Whether the hobbyist wants to take action is completely up to them.
I think the advances have allowed reefers to push the challenges of harder, even impossible to keep corals and fish in a closed system. Just a couple decades ago (so I've heard from seasoned hobbyist) breeding fish in captivity was a huge thing. Now it's happening more often with a variety of species.
You could be successful with the diy system you made, there are a LOT of reefers who just add prime to tap water. Then there's some who just go tap water straight up. But not knowing what's in the water to begin with is was a lot of people debate about.
You can use non ro water, but there are chances your taking when doing so.

 

[Lasse]

For the book - the difficulties with breading most saltwater species is not mostly the water quality question - it is to find the proper food and proper nutrition in that food. Water quality is important but not the best water quality in the world will solve the food problem.

Sincerely Lasse