IS IT TRUE THAT 80% OF PEOPLE WILL HAVE FISH LOSSES DUE TO DISEASE/PARASITES IN FIRST 8 MONTHS IF DONT QUARANTINE ?

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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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I’m not mad :) there’s just a little umbrage if someone is going to tell me how to interpret my own work threads without providing any to the counter, and with no history whatsoever of being accountable for outcomes if others take their advice.

my inbox is a constant discussion on cycling and disease, it’s a pressing need as I relay it.


people take the artistry they do in the home and think it transfers well outbound to others using new systems, it doesn’t, and the only way to know this is for once in life do some work in others reefs and keep the proofing don’t just make your entire reef paradigm about what we own, others may not paint as well as you guys can.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Also Ying yang as you mature in reefing practice you’ll see formal studies aren’t that awesome. They’re too slow to meet changing demand

Formal studies didn’t bring pico reefing to the game, pico reefing brought itself to the game despite total pushback from you guessed it: rolls of large tank owners who posted proof of allelopathy and guaranteed unstable loss.



formal studies didn’t bring us testless reef tank cycling, folks fed up being misled by Api sure did.


formal studies didn’t bring you eight years of skip cycle tank transfer examples, two million bucks of others reefs in one single thread, with no losses solely by the action of rinsing sandbeds in tap water: folks who know how to effect skip cycles brought you that

and you may be copying moves one day not even knowing at one time the large tankers disagreed with every reef idea I’ve ever had. They’re gallonists, volumists is why and lol truth will always win it just takes time.

start this thread just as it was here, but in the disease forum i honestly want to see what they say.
 
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HuduVudu

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I do think diseases in our fish supplier and LFS systems is a major and growing problem.
This has been a problem from the inception of this hobby. It isn't growing, it is that people are becoming aware that it's a problem.

Since the suppliers seem to be doing nothing about it, as responsible pet owners I think we should.
Agreed. I do this by buying as close to the source as possible to cut out as many middle men as possible. Online is awesome for this reason. People don't like liveaquaria, but they are whom the LFS's (in the US) buy from.

Just do some research and make a plan, rather than putting blinders on and pretending like disease is not an issue in reef tanks.
I 100% agree with this, though probably not for the same reason as intended (I am guessing).

People think that hobbyist that don't use QT are just "winging" it. Maybe some inexperienced hobbyists are but eventually the bill will come due. It is important to understand that there are two types of people that don't QT (the same as those that QT). There are the people that understand and have a plan and there are those that don't. It is incumbent on the person looking for information on the subject to know the difference.
 
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ying yang

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Brandon.
Sure I can start this exact same thread in dieseses forum.maybe because I'm not tech savvy but I don't see how that will change anything ,doesn't all the " new posts or where someone just posted in a thread " all go to same place ? Like this screenshot shows.this how I find all latest threads anyway.

This thread was started by me as countless times I asked the question and didn't get answered and if it is true that such high losses due to diesese/parasites then we clearly doing something wrong ( that's if more losses through not qt than not qt) but from this thread and others I'm realising it's a factor of many many things to become successful.
And I wanted answers from people's own experiences on " how many fish you lost to diesese/parasites if not qt " so having work threads or working on others tank had nothing to do with it unless I told only people who work for tank maintenance company's servicing publics tanks in their homes.

As I say reading/researching before I set tank up,I thought all saltwater fish are doomed and will die if we don't intervene but by asking peoples opinions on if they do or not and possible seeing how they do things then can get an answer and some helpful tips if choose not to qt or even if choose to qt as im neither for or against qt and I have qt running for several months now and filter in sump incase need pull all fish out dt and start a 3 foot tank up to medicate.
And yeah people can lie and say they haven't lost any fish and just buy another to replace it ( that would soon get old if they just kept dying lol) so if anyone looked on their build thread they got same fish but I would like to believe that the highest majority of people are not liars ,how I deal with anyone to do with most people as if they don't give no reason to think there a liar then I won't think there a liar ^_^
 

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HuduVudu

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formal studies didn’t bring us testless reef tank cycling, folks fed up being misled by Api sure did.
It is strange to me that you think that all of this is new.

Testless tank cycling has been around since the advent of cured live rock, at least as far back as Walt Smith started pulling rock out of the ocean.

API Nitrate has always been bad.
 
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ying yang

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@brandon429 here ya go


Even though people are going think I'm bonkers for starting same thread word for word twice lol .
Not sure how get on page 3 or where page 3 even is tbh,and why you even want on a particular page lol but if it's not on page 3 I'm not starting again.but now all people that already answered may think it's same thread as this one and not answer in new thread so then takes alot of answers from active people away so either or either we can all say something not right in how something worded or whatever reason,like someone insinuated I worded this thread in such a way to only get none qt people to answer which I find truly bizarre thinking but hey ho ^_^

Still in same place on latest posts where I usually find threads as in this screenshot lol
 

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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Yingyang that is really neat I’m happy to see that. I didn’t think you would, I believe you’re truly interested in discovering the patterns and if we get a resounding, clearly majority opinion that a high degree of loss cannot be expected from stocking new tanks with unprepped fish ill get my own notepad out and take down the stated patterns. It’s good science you did that. I give that forum a ton of credence when it comes to anything disease patterned.



ps

if you get a resounding, clearly stated pattern that no preps are needed to avoid a very high incidence of fish loss by month eight, I’ma need some updated stickies there :)


100% of the stickies show prep methods, none are for winging it, safety stop, or all natural methods where the only prep is on the reef (maturing them out) before adding fish. Every sticky there is a focus on the fish prep itself, surely they’ll vote to continue that practice for new tankers. Now we get to see, no guessing from me required. I think that was a good job done, and now it’s a fair way to inspect a very very very very hot button issue for the hobby, my respects. I’m now watching intently there, we need to let opinions come for few pages to check recommendation patterns

handy little side audit for the coming recommendations there:

each page of the fish disease forum has about twenty or so entries for help threads, diagnostic threads


make a list numbering 1-20 or however many threads a page holds there, do just page one real quick.

on the check list, start with the first poster asking for help and click their name badge / select find all posts. Go to their first and second post about their tanks, discern its age. Most leave clues how old the reef is there, jot down if it’s older or younger than eight months


omit from the list anyone who’s tank you can’t age date off their posts



do this for every entrant for help on page one, is the majority older than eight months? Let’s see, I’ll brb with the new tally :)
 
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Tidal Gardens

SebM

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I disagree, if it died then it is wrong if it lives then it is at least partially right.
That's what my complete sentence referred to. Respect and great care.

I haven't had any fish die of disease, ever, apart from new arrivals susceptible to certain diseases (e.g. Chromis) and QT would not have changed that.

For me respect and great care means that I don't go anywhere near recommended stocking levels, that my tanks are in pristine condition and stable, that my fish get nutritious food that makes them strong and that I don't mix what shouldn't be mixed.

I'll say it again:

Stressed fish = weakened immune system = awakening whatever parasites, viruses or bacteria have been dormant on the fish or in the tank = sick fish.

So you make dang sure to avoid the root cause, i.e. stressed fish.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Ok to begin proofing solely off page one of the fish disease forum, it seems 17 posts are for help, so out of 17 posters I’m about to go discover who’s younger than eight months, I did this once for ten straight pages but it was last year. I wasn’t just making up my % from the sky, it’s from legit patterns in my cycle threads and what I’m about to recount coming up
 
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ying yang

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Very much welcome.
As I say this question has intrigued me for so long now.
Along with why do people say saltwater fish get diesese/ parasites more than freshwater, well let's just put it like this I'm a very curious guy and like to think my thinking is logical ( even down to choosing which forum I initially choose as choose fish discussion as had more posts so may have bigger audience and its a fish discussion whether huge numbers die or not) even though when I search for latest threads they all together no matter which forum someone put it in.but as I say im not tech savvy so maybe I'm looking wrong idk and
I just class r2r as a forum but if look within r2r it has maybe 100 which confuses me but I'm sure there a good reason ^_^

And for me to add a stickie at a later date,first someone would have to explain to me what a stickie actually is and how to add one lol
 

LiamPM

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public work threads

work links

my comments come from managing countless linkable right now cycle productions for others
patterns in my cycle threads


Are you calling a post on a forum created by random people asking for advice "Public work threads"?

Are you calling peoples experiences written onto the internet ona public forum board "work links"?

Are you seriously saying you "manage" peoples threads simply because you comment on them?

Are you calling posts people start asking for advice about cycling "Your cycle threads"?
________________________________________

Just curious, it would help me understand how you word things - You come across like you are paid by this forum to "WORK" yet im pretty sure you're just another random like myself commenting on a public forum about a hobby. No offence intended - Just curious on how you word things, i find your posts difficult to read.
 
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ying yang

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As for just putting fish in a new tank and " winging it " @brandon429 I think that's wrong ,just plain wrong thing to do as imo we need make fish as comfortable as possible with caves/overhangs,cut throughs,food,tank size,tank mates,lights not as bright as the sun itself and 6 inches away,flow,rocks,etc etc etc etc lots of things to add to this to make fish comfartable/ less stressed.let fish lose line of sight between each other and me blah blah blah
As all in all we want whats best for our fishy friends right ?
I always wish that used real ocean live rock instead of dry rock but as already spent quite few hundred pounds money and tank sat empty for 5 years,I didn't want to then fork out
Even more money but I did it again.thats one thing I defo would change but scared from all the whats this pest whats that pest that came on my live rock and all the youtube videos suggesting use dry rock dry sand from when I initially bought this tank in 2015

And as I say im only new to saltwater side this hobby but always looking to learn and do whats right for my fishy
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Lyss

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Ok to begin proofing solely off page one of the fish disease forum, it seems 17 posts are for help, so out of 17 posters I’m about to go discover who’s younger than eight months, I did this once for ten straight pages but it was last year. I wasn’t just making up my % from the sky, it’s from legit patterns in my cycle threads and what I’m about to recount coming up
But that’s 80% of the ppl who post here for help in the disease forum. The point I was trying to make all along in the other thread was that we can't pull threads from the disease forum and be able to say "80% of Americans who purchase fish for newly cycled tanks" or something to that effect. it's only 80% of a group of folks coming here to directly ask for help with an issue in the disease forum.
 

SebM

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As for just putting fish in a new tank and " winging it " @brandon429 I think that's wrong ,just plain wrong thing to do as imo we need make fish as comfortable as possible with caves/overhangs,cut throughs,food,tank size,tank mates,lights not as bright as the sun itself and 6 inches away,flow,rocks,etc etc etc etc lots of things to add to this to make fish comfartable/ less stressed.let fish lose line of sight between each other and me blah blah blah
As all in all we want whats best for our fishy friends right ?
I always wish that used real ocean live rock instead of dry rock but as already spent quite few hundred pounds money and tank sat empty for 5 years,I didn't want to then fork out
Even more money but I did it again.thats one thing I defo would change but scared from all the whats this pest whats that pest that came on my live rock and all the youtube videos suggesting use dry rock dry sand from when I initially bought this tank in 2015

And as I say im only new to saltwater side this hobby but always looking to learn and do whats right for my fishy
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What you say is one of the main reasons for my anti QT views. All it does is add more stress to the fish, especially if you QT several. Unless your QT resembles your DT you do nothing other than weaken the fish’s immune system further.

As long as your main tank is established, stable with pristine water quality and not overstocked the risk to your existing fish is negligible. Your new arrivals will do much better than in a typical QT.

If you start “dipping” your new arrivals then things get even worse. It’s probably more stressful than all catching and transport taken together.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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I just did the count it's 54% under eight months posting for help on disease in a display, and 45% are posting for display help over eight months. Run it out a few pages, the trend hits about 66% anyone feel free to check. Not 80% and also not the minority either, it's right there on page one in the disease forum: a majority of disease help posts appear in under eight months.

If 80% was too high to speculate, and it includes my own assessment from directly inspecting thousands of cycles we log a few months after completion, I'm open to seeing anyone else's data just don't tell me one speck about what happened in your home i only value what works in lots of 20 reefs at a time.
 

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I just did the count it's 54% under eight months posting for help on disease in a display, and 45% are posting for display help over eight months. Run it out a few pages, the trend hits about 66% anyone feel free to check. Not 80% and also not the minority either, it's right there on page one in the disease forum: a majority of disease help posts appear in under eight months.

If 80% was too high to speculate, and it includes my own assessment from directly inspecting thousands of cycles we log a few months after completion, I'm open to seeing anyone else's data just don't tell me one speck about what happened in your home i only value what works in lots of 20 reefs at a time.
But that isn’t 80% of people who buy fish for newly cycled tanks or anything like it.

It’s 80% (or whatever other percentage it is) of people who post about their fish being sick.

That’s a huge difference.

People without sick fish won’t post, people with sick fish but don’t know about this forum won’t post, people without sick fish and who don’t know about this forum won’t post and so on.

I’ve never been a member of a fish forum in 20 years of keeping fish. I only signed up here recently when I stumbled upon a thread about how to cycle with Caribsea (I was utterly confused how to cycle as all I had ever known was live rock which is no longer available).

Also, newbies are far more likely to post about their sick fish so the percentages are naturally skewed.
 
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