Is this Ich, Flukes or something else?

RobberyinCSharp1824

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I've been recently posting about my yellow tang in QT who has been stressed out for the last week or so.

I just did a 10% water change (temp and salinity match).
Following the guidance of some helpful members on this forum, his stress has gone down. I've kept all lights off, added more Nori to his diet, and only gone downstairs for feeding this last week. He's stopped fleeing when I'm around and now both fish seem comfy coming out near me (they've figured out that I bring them food) instead of darting for their PVC.

I tried 1 week of medicated food (GC + focus + mysis shrimp) and the tang always appeared stressed afterwards, so I stopped. Not worth it since they showed no signs of stringy poop.
Copper has been sitting at about 0.18ppm (copper safe) until I bring the levels up, which is scheduled for a few days from now per my QT schedule.

Salinity is at 1.021. Temp is 79F.
Running aeration constantly on top of lower water levels in the tank so the mechanical filter can displace oxygen into the water. Powerhead on for circulation.

No signs of heavy breathing. Full-tank swimming, not hanging out at the top gasping for air but they make the occasional stop at the top of the tank and actively swim elsewhere.
No signs of swimming into the powerhead.
They eat in abundance 3x per day. (Food always includes a mix of Emerald Entree or Nori, and Mysis or Brine Shrimp)

I observed spurts of flashing/twitching in the tang last week but attributed it to stress. Was very inconsistent, and I probably wasn't feeding enough Nori so I thought it was a nutrient deficiency.
Flashing behavior hasn't stopped. I got a few low-quality videos I snipped together - is this behavior indicative of flukes? Ich? Something else?

No white spots, but I understand Yellow Tangs are difficult to see spots on until it's too late. Anthias is not displaying any of these behaviors but he often hides from me.

I've got Copper Power, Focus, Metroplex, Kanaplex, Reef Rally Pro, and General Cure on hand.

Please help me help my tang!
 

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Big G

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A freshwater dip will confirm or eliminate flukes from the situation. Plus if there are any parasites, the FW dip will remove many of them from the gills and skin, buying you time to decide on the next move.

At about 3 minutes into the dip you should see flukes dropping off if they are present. Use a dark container for the dip. Much easier to see the little white sesame seed looking bodies of the flukes.

 
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RobberyinCSharp1824

RobberyinCSharp1824

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A freshwater dip will confirm or eliminate flukes from the situation. Plus if there are any parasites, the FW dip will remove many of them from the gills and skin, buying you time to decide on the next move.

At about 3 minutes into the dip you should see flukes dropping off if they are present. Use a dark container for the dip. Much easier to see the little white sesame seed looking bodies of the flukes.


Thanks, @Big G ! Do you think my Tang will experience more stress from the dip? Also, how critical is the aeration? I only have one aerator at the moment that is aerating my QT - I can grab a new one from the store tomorrow morning (I need new aerator stones anyways) unless the cross-contamination isn't an issue.
 

Big G

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Fairly common for fish to fuss a bit at the beginning of a freshwater dip. But they usually calm down in a minute or two.
Aeration is critical during the dip. You only need it for a few minutes before and then during.
 
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RobberyinCSharp1824

RobberyinCSharp1824

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Fairly common for fish to fuss a bit at the beginning of a freshwater dip. But they usually calm down in a minute or two.
Aeration is critical during the dip. You only need it for a few minutes before and then during.
Got it. I installed new filters on my RO/DI system, made some new DI water (in a blue Lowes bucket), and will be going to my LFS first thing tomorrow AM to get some spare aeration equipment! I will keep you posted!
 
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RobberyinCSharp1824

RobberyinCSharp1824

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@Big G
Freshwater dip complete. He was in there for 5min, using a dark blue Lowe's bucket. I didn't see anything drop off of him.

Thoughts?
 

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Big G

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Nice work! Your fish looks great. Good color, did well during the dip. I'd just observe and keep an eye out for bacterial infection as you slowly ramp up the copper to therapeutic. The most common bad reaction to the copper suppressed immune system is the red-ish areas that occur. And when those appear fast treatment is necessary. I prefer NFG powder for tangs and butterflies to treat those red areas/sores.
 
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RobberyinCSharp1824

RobberyinCSharp1824

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Nice work! Your fish looks great. Good color, did well during the dip. I'd just observe and keep an eye out for bacterial infection as you slowly ramp up the copper to therapeutic. The most common bad reaction to the copper suppressed immune system is the red-ish areas that occur. And when those appear fast treatment is necessary. I prefer NFG powder for tangs and butterflies to treat those red areas/sores.

Thanks, @Big G ! If I have to treat them with NFG, will it be a problem for the Lyretail Anthias in the QT with him? Or do I have to set up a separate system to treat him separately? (And do I continue giving him copper?)
 

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Are you prophylactically treating the fish with copper? If so, and the fish is taking the copper well, sure. Just watch for bacterial infection.

NFG is a wide spectrum antibiotic that works with all fish.

But you want to avoid using meds on fish that don't need it as they can build immunity to some drugs.
 
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RobberyinCSharp1824

RobberyinCSharp1824

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Are you prophylactically treating the fish with copper? If so, and the fish is taking the copper well, sure. Just watch for bacterial infection.

NFG is a wide spectrum antibiotic that works with all fish.

But you want to avoid using meds on fish that don't need it as they can build immunity to some drugs.

@Big G That was the plan, yes, as I usually do Humblefish's QT method with two weeks of copper. That being said, is the flashing / twitching not ich then? I would rather prioritize a different treatment regimen and treat with copper afterwards so whatever is bothering the tang doesn't get worse over time or spread to my anthias.
 
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Big G

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Sometimes fish, especially tangs, will get irritated skin from copper treatments. Zebrasoma species "can" be very copper sensitive.
 
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RobberyinCSharp1824

RobberyinCSharp1824

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Sometimes fish, especially tangs, will get irritated skin from copper treatments. Zebrasoma species "can" be very copper sensitive.

Wow, really? Do you think the fact that the copper was at 0.18ppm was actually what is agitating him? I actually started slowly adding copper power this morning after the bath to target therapeutic dose by Thursday afternoon (we're at 0.35ppm now). I'm guessing if his flashing will get worse if that's the case.

I know there's the TTM for mitigating ich, but how do I prevent velvet if copper isn't an option?
 

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Wow, really? Do you think the fact that the copper was at 0.18ppm was actually what is agitating him? I actually started slowly adding copper power this morning after the bath to target therapeutic dose by Thursday afternoon (we're at 0.35ppm now). I'm guessing if his flashing will get worse if that's the case.

I know there's the TTM for mitigating ich, but how do I prevent velvet if copper isn't an option?
TTM if done completely and correctly will clear a fish of Ich.

And there is a new TTM hybrid process using H2O2 has had some good results if the velvet was in an early phase.

Using CP aka chloroquine phosphate also can completely clear Ich and Velvet.
 
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RobberyinCSharp1824

RobberyinCSharp1824

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TTM if done completely and correctly will clear a fish of Ich.

And there is a new TTM hybrid process using H2O2 has had some good results if the velvet was in an early phase.

Using CP aka chloroquine phosphate also can completely clear Ich and Velvet.
Thanks very much for your help! I'm going to start removing the copper from the tank. I've got a bag of Cuprisorb in there now and I will be doing a 50% water change today. Another round of water being made as well. If he still is twitching/shaking, I will let you know. The flashing has stopped since his FW bath but I don't know if that's from temporary symptom relief. The next few days should tell. NFG is on order, 3-day shipping.
 
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RobberyinCSharp1824

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Hey @Big G , I started the hybrid tank transfer method (w/H2O2) since Chloroquine Phosphate isn't really an option for me. I did transfer 1, about to complete transfer 2.

I am about to give them their first H2O2 bath. I have been keeping my exposure down in the basement to a minimum since their first transfer, but I did see today that the tang is still flashing. It's less than before, though. Still no signs of spots, no heavy breathing, and still eating (oh, and today I discovered they eat their poo :oops:). No idea if this is stress brought on by an unexpected power loss in my basement that caused the tank temp to drop to about 68...thank god they survived.

Any thoughts on what this is?
 

Big G

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It's not unusual for fish to continue flashing a bit during any treatments. But it should decrease over time.
 

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